PI allegations and response

TBF, being a PI is Tony's job. The lying about it isn't great, mind. If he's lying; we all know Newell to be one devious little cabbage, after all.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

TBF, being a PI is Tony's job. The lying about it isn't great, mind. If he's lying; we all know Newell to be one devious little cabbage, after all.

The Argyle internet world is full of devious, self promoting cabbages.

They deserve eachother but our club does not.

From what I know, it's clear that Newell and Webb have lied to Jock about the identity of Greenman. So I suppose anything's possible, but let's be honest, if an Argyle fan wants to use a Private Investigator, whose is the first name they're going to come up with?

I'll hold my hands up, when this whole episode first blew up I stated that I felt I knew TC well enough to say he wouldn't get involved. Now? I'm calling my own judgement into question. The more I think about it, the more it seems probable that Tony was involved.

Tony Vote4Me says he wasn't 'hired' (implies change of money). He doesn't appear to say he didn't actually get the information for a mate.

Andy_Symons wrote:

From what I know, it's clear that Newell and Webb have lied to Jock about the identity of Greenman. So I suppose anything's possible, but let's be honest, if an Argyle fan wants to use a Private Investigator, whose is the first name they're going to come up with?

I'll hold my hands up, when this whole episode first blew up I stated that I felt I knew TC well enough to say he wouldn't get involved. Now? I'm calling my own judgement into question. The more I think about it, the more it seems probable that Tony was involved.

Andy do you mean lied to him at the Tiverton meet?

Yes

I have recently had to track someone down. As a mere amateur, I managed to find out all sorts of things about them.

All of it available on publicly open sites. I even found some of the pictures they had recently put up on flickr! And, like the Newell Files, as it was all on public sites it was all perfectly legal to find and quite in order to do so. IF TonyC was involved, it is a pity he didn't acknowledge this role.

What was morally reprehensible, unacceptable and probably illegal were the threats made to Jock and his family off the back of that research which I assume was not in the PI's thinking.

(Via internet whispers - like Chinese and equally unreliable - I too have heard the alleged identity of Greenman. Who knows who it is!?)

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

tonycholwell wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Sorry Tony, when you said to me you had not been commissioned to report on or track me, can you confirm in easy to understand language that you had no involvement in it paid or unpaid?

And also if you have managed to speak to Ian Newell or Lee Jameson on the subject, and if you have what they had to say?

If you don't want it made public you can PM or call me.

Thanks

In easy to understand language I have had no involvment or been commissioned to report on you. My view is loud and clear, no one should be subject to threats, real or implied emanting from a spat on an internet forum and certainly not a child and his parent/s. I have consistently said and believe this

I would urge you to do what I have told others, if you feel you are being scrutinised check your crediit file, that will indicate if someone is looking into you. Pretty good advice if you havent looked recently to see how you are doing.

I would also say to people, be careful what you post on social media sites.

I have seen both LJ and IJN today and its best put this way: LJ is angry and wont talk about it and Ian feels he is regularly mis quoted and mis reported, particularly online.

Personally, I have been looking forward to today so we can all talk about football again, yet its not to be. In the circumstances I am going to have an ATD holiday for a month or so. Most people know how to contact me if they need or want to, but I suspect I will be forever blighted because I was truthful enough to say what I did, something that many posters have been grateful for. So, Im taking my own advice and taking a sabbatical.

Dingle, that thought did cross my mind a while ago, so I did ask Tony on here this and his response definitely denies ANY involvement at all. When the allegation that it was Tony originally surfaced, see earlier in this thread, the moral issue of this was debated and Tony himself said it was not illegal but it would be frowned upon by a decent PI.

What is disappointing if it was Tony, is that we have had several conversations by PM where I would have considered him to be a decent guy who had said that if I wanted a lift to a game he would oblige, and he even offered me his season ticket for a game that he wouldn't be able to make, and we swapped telephone numbers. I would have also given him my address if he asked.

He also denied the allegation several times, and even said that he had confronted IJN about the claim and IJN had said he was often misquoted! He was not misquoted on Tuesday night, nor was Chris Webb, so somebody is lying and it's not me.

With regard to the Greenman claims made by Ian and Chris on Tuesday, Andy asked me who it was because he was also subjected to a lot of abuse from this person.

I am suddenly getting the feeling that I am being stitched up again, but I am only passing on information given to me by two people who should be trustworthy. I did contact Lee Jameson again last night to chase up my apology, and I got the impression that he was cooling on the idea of a public apology, but I will wait and see what develops today.

A veritable nest of vipers. Just imagine how much they'd get away with without ATD keeping a beady eye on them

[quote="seadog"]

Andy_Symons wrote:

From what I know, it's clear that Newell and Webb have lied to Jock about the identity of Greenman. So I suppose anything's possible, but let's be honest, if an Argyle fan wants to use a Private Investigator, whose is the first name they're going to come up with?

Let me guess... They blamed Dane?

[quote="Rickler"]

seadog wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

From what I know, it's clear that Newell and Webb have lied to Jock about the identity of Greenman. So I suppose anything's possible, but let's be honest, if an Argyle fan wants to use a Private Investigator, whose is the first name they're going to come up with?

Let me guess... They blamed Dane?

Surprisingly, no. Maybe they'll approach the young man they tried to put in the frame and explain and apologise, but, given that Jock is still waiting for this apology from Lee 'Deepthroat' Jameson, I guess that apologies and contrition aren't high on the agenda for the Axis of Weasels.

You have to ask why the press are not picking up on this considering the extremely strong connections between those involved and James Brent.

GOB wrote:

You have to ask why the press are not picking up on this considering the extremely strong connections between those involved and James Brent.

Because as Charlie told us.... Brent regards these people as friends. As we know... The Plymouth press doesn't do upsetting anyone at HP.

Exactly Rickler and the name that seems to be connected to each and every dirt bag involved.

Chris Webb has twice named Sean Rapson as Greenman. Sean is only a young lad but I hope he has the balls to apologise to Jock. If Chris is lying I hope he has the balls to explain why.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Chris Webb has twice named Sean Rapson as Greenman. Sean is only a young lad but I hope he has the balls to apologise to Jock. If Chris is lying I hope he has the balls to explain why.

Is that the same as having the balls to supply his IP address?

Why the feck does our club President feel the need to involve himself???

If he had any sense of integrity and respect for his position, as soon as Jock invited him to eavesdrop, he should have politely declined and fecked off. Newell would obviously filled him in on the info, but FFS, at least try and act Presidentially on occasion eh?

This won't end until Jameson categorically names either Tony or A.N.other as the PI

The weasely little deepthroater shouldn't be given a chance to claim the Fifth...

Well I don't know if Greenman is who I have been told it was, or if someone has got confused because Sean had another username before he changed it to the one he uses now, but I haven't heard from him. I have been told by several people that it absolutely isn't Sean so I'm as in the dark as everybody else.

I also haven't heard a thing from Lee Jameson, despite him promising me that he would be apologising and giving his reason for hiring a PI in the first place. This was at around 11am yesterday morning so he has had plenty of time to do so.

When he didn't post anything I sent him a text asking why, because after the phone call we had parted on good terms. I was satisfied that there was nothing too sinister in his reasoning, and it was just because I had made a jokey reference to Deep Throat saying I would ram my fist down his Deep Throat or something along those lines.

Lee seemed grateful that I was willing to talk about it all and assured me that he had not retained any information about me or my family.

Lee replied by text late last night, so now Kaz knows about the PI incident. She wanted to know who was texting me at almost midnight and it has been difficult keeping her in the dark about all of this. She is understandably livid and wants me to contact his boss/bosses whatever to let them know what he has done.

Lee, you have had ample time to apologise, and I don't think that is asking too much. If you don't want this going any further than a small internet forum then I suggest you do and quickly.

I will also divulge details of private conversations we have had by PM and telephone if the apology isn't forthcoming tonight.

I thought this whole thing would have ended yesterday, but it looks like it's going to keep dragging on, and try as I have, I can't see what I have done wrong in all of this.

An apology Lee, for the grief and concern caused to me and my family, whether it was undue concern or not, it was because of the comment I made about your Deep Throat involvement, and the shitty behaviour of all of the Deep Throat cowards, and because you hired a PI and someone else was making threats and talked about a PI being hired when they made the threats.

On and on and on...

Jock...You're either serious about it, in which case go to the police, or just give up on it...

Because one thing is clear.. They are starting to pull your strings like a puppet - The situation is becoming a farce.

Rickler posted.....'They are starting to pull your strings like a puppet - The situation is becoming a farce.'

Just like Argyle.

a bit off thread, but whats this fascination with 'telling their boss' about peoples internet personality. will it help, or will most bosses think ' so what?'
are people really that scared of their bosses, or of losing that job?
im just confused, maybe its the provincialness ripped from me when i moved away...

theres more to life.

back to thread. its a shame that the perpetraitors cant man up and apologise, and i hope this whole saga has its happy ending

Just for the record and to clear this up.

I did have a long conversation with Jock about this matter.

First of all the reason for me hiring a PI was to get GJ address and GJ address only. GJ was happy with my explanation and after talking to somebody saying that Jock was a decent guy if you knew him. So I decided not to send a letter to GJ to back off, we actually started to talk via PM and I have to say the exchanges were pleasant.

He also believed that I was not GM. So that is both those matters closed.

I apologised to Jock if I caused him any stress but I did what I had to do at the time.

I repeat this apology and there is no way I wanted to to upset him or his family.

Thanks Lee.

I have spoken to Lee about all of this now and I accept his explanation of why he hired a PI, it was simply to get my address to send a letter, and it was just unfortunate that it coincided with me receiving threats from someone else, which made it seemed sinister.

I did tell Lee that if he had contacted me directly in the first place I would probably have given him my address, or we could have sorted it out without the need to involve anyone else. Lee knows what I feel about his role in the Deepthroat stuff, and at least he has been contrite about that and given more of an apology than others who were involved.

I fully accept Lee's apology over all of the business with me, so as far as I'm concerned that is the end of the matter. If others want to have a go at Lee that is up to them, but they are doing so off of their own backs.

I was disappointed that it took Lee until this morning to post the apology, but he has explained why and it was a perfectly good reason and it took precedence over this.

I have to add that at no time has Lee confirmed or denied the identity of the PI, so we are still relying on the word of Chris Webb and Ian Newell that it was Tony Cholwell, and I still think that as Tony has denied it several times already it means in my book that unless he is being set-up over this and he wasn't involved, then he is hardly an ideal candidate to be a representative of Argyle fans, when he has taken on a job which to me shouldn't have been accepted, and then has been denied on numerous occasions.

I won't be having a go at Lee unless he starts playing games. I WILL take the piss out of him when the chance arises (in a nice way)!

Good on you Lee for the public apology.

Greenjock wrote:

Thanks Lee.

I have spoken to Lee about all of this now and I accept his explanation of why he hired a PI, it was simply to get my address to send a letter, and it was just unfortunate that it coincided with me receiving threats from someone else, which made it seemed sinister.

I did tell Lee that if he had contacted me directly in the first place I would probably have given him my address, or we could have sorted it out without the need to involve anyone else. Lee knows what I feel about his role in the Deepthroat stuff, and at least he has been contrite about that and given more of an apology than others who were involved.

I fully accept Lee's apology over all of the business with me, so as far as I'm concerned that is the end of the matter. If others want to have a go at Lee that is up to them, but they are doing so off of their own backs.

I was disappointed that it took Lee until this morning to post the apology, but he has explained why and it was a perfectly good reason and it took precedence over this.

I have to add that at no time has Lee confirmed or denied the identity of the PI, so we are still relying on the word of Chris Webb and Ian Newell that it was Tony Cholwell, and I still think that as Tony has denied it several times already it means in my book that unless he is being set-up over this and he wasn't involved, then he is hardly an ideal candidate to be a representative of Argyle fans, when he has taken on a job which to me shouldn't have been accepted, and then has been denied on numerous occasions.

What a bunch of total bollox!!

Why didn't Jameson just send you a PM or look up your name on the election rolls etc.. Are you in the phonebook?
Greenman slides his way out of it and yet Tony Cholwell who should be innocent until proven guilty is left tainted with allegations of wrongdoing.

You've been 'had' Greenjock.