Bottom 5 realistic

Next week ....

Don't write off the season before its started . There's time for signings yet . Fletcher keeps his cards very close to his chest . I'd be absolutely amazed if there aren't a few signings before the season kicks off .

Errrm.....y'know.....i fink ee knows sumfin.........

Tringreen wrote:

Errrm.....y'know.....i fink ee knows sumfin.........

No I don't Tringy . I'm not in the loop . Haven't spoken to anyone in weeks .

Rickler wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Unless freeing up Walton's wages is going to lead to 3 or 4 good signings, I think we've all been sold a dud.

Aren't we projected to make a loss this season?
I think part of Brent getting the club cheaply, was that the costs going forward were several millions for the near future and he agreed to aborb those.

I think the freeing up of Waltons wages will be put to paying who we have already.
I am guessing there will be as little investment (meaning new players) as possible.

It will be interesting to see if Brents "rainy day" fund for a player gets used for the upcoming season.

I wonder how much was in the season ticket kitty when he took over the club?

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Can't seem to get an answer?

That's not strictly correct though is it? Brent didn't clear all the debts he should have when he took the club over, so those debts will now be cleared using Club income, not money from Brent's pocket

The cost of Brent getting the club on the cheap was that future gate receipts, transfer income etc. would be used to pay of historic debts. So for the next four years, the club's income will be used to pay two sets of wages, transfer fees for players long gone etc.

As a business deal it's a fantastic example of "leverage" As a deal to secure the long term future of the club? With millions of pounds of debt to clear in 4 years time, we need either a couple of promotions or to sell a player for several million-if that doesn't happen PAFC (like most clubs that go into Admin) will be back there.

Someone should book the Guildhall now for another "Save the Club" meeting.

James Brent was head of global operations for merchant bank Citigroup and would be well versed in "leverage".Fair play to the bloke though,nobody else wanted to take it on.Thats how he has built up a multi million pound empire,quite a common practice nowadays.My old gran wouldn't have approved though...her maxim was if you couldn't afford it you went without.Times have changes.Le monde bouge.

So in some ways the club is still very unattractive to any potential buyer. It still has a sizeable debt to cover, has no assets anymore and is still in the 4th division.

Dougie wrote:

So in some ways the club is still very unattractive to any potential buyer. It still has a sizeable debt to cover, has no assets anymore and is still in the 4th division.

But we've got a big flag (that doesn't smell very nice)

As a worst prediction finish,i will plump for 17th position.

As a more generous ''better'' prediction,i will plump for 12th position.

I do not think Argyle will be in the bottom two all season again,they may at times flirt near the drop zone.

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

Heres a thought to ponder CG.

Perhaps CF had already made his A list signings.

Or perhaps not:)

It is clear some people like Izal (sp) McLeod have wage demands that most 4th division clubs would baulk at and as a consequence he is still available as are other "premium" players. Seems to me a game of poker, if you blink you lose and at the minute CF has a steady hand. As we get closer to kick off wage demands will tumble with the unsigned and get back to 4th division norm.

tonycholwell wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

Heres a thought to ponder CG.

Perhaps CF had already made his A list signings.

Or perhaps not:)

It is clear some people like Izal (sp) McLeod have wage demands that most 4th division clubs would baulk at and as a consequence he is still available as are other "premium" players. Seems to me a game of poker, if you blink you lose and at the minute CF has a steady hand. As we get closer to kick off wage demands will tumble with the unsigned and get back to 4th division norm.

How would that scenario sit with the oft trotted out "we only want people here who really want to be here" rhetoric, Tony?

Charlie Wood wrote:

tonycholwell wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

Heres a thought to ponder CG.

Perhaps CF had already made his A list signings.

Or perhaps not:)

It is clear some people like Izal (sp) McLeod have wage demands that most 4th division clubs would baulk at and as a consequence he is still available as are other "premium" players. Seems to me a game of poker, if you blink you lose and at the minute CF has a steady hand. As we get closer to kick off wage demands will tumble with the unsigned and get back to 4th division norm.

How would that scenario sit with the oft trotted out "we only want people here who really want to be here" rhetoric, Tony?

Ii think with a pinch of salt in the real world Charlie. Its more aspirational.

Although you wouldnt knowingly want a disruptive individual, signing players has always had an element of luck at our end of the FL. Its about needs we have and players available to meet those needs. Then you can ask the awkward questions, like, "Are you a nutter?"

The reverse would be thtat you have a dressing room full of happy clappers who arent very good. I think we currently verge to the latter.

I think you're right Tony, which is why I treat all the positive spin and cliched rhetoric with a great degree of scepticism and rolling eyes.

As always the proof of the pudding is in actions not words.

Says he squeezing in one more cliche.

Charlie Wood wrote:

I think you're right Tony, which is why I treat all the positive spin and cliched rhetoric with a great degree of scepticism and rolling eyes.

As always the proof of the pudding is in actions not words.

Says he squeezing in one more cliche.

Amen to all of that Charlie.

After 3 years of doing nothing but slide we need to be lifted and liftted high.

Please dont say anything, is what Id say to CF until it is to announce signings that will lift us, the team and the club.

my prediction is similar to tony, wait wait and wait, sign a couple of players, slump to start in the first fixture, lines such as 'give cf time' and 'theyve not had time to gel properly' abound. christmas comes, bottom three, a couple of loanees in january and finally relegation come april


i am mystic smeg and i claim a season ticket

tonycholwell wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

Heres a thought to ponder CG.

Perhaps CF had already made his A list signings.

Or perhaps not:)

It is clear some people like Izal (sp) McLeod have wage demands that most 4th division clubs would baulk at and as a consequence he is still available as are other "premium" players. Seems to me a game of poker, if you blink you lose and at the minute CF has a steady hand. As we get closer to kick off wage demands will tumble with the unsigned and get back to 4th division norm.

If CF has already made his A list signings then we are in trouble.

If we're waiting for the McLeod's to lower their wage demands then I don't see how that is going to help our pre-season and VillageGreen's prediction of a "good start" which was my question. Whilst we might have sold close to 4k memberships, we don't know how those memberships break down (full, white etc). If we're going to maintain last season's excellent attendance numbers then I believe a good start is essential.

To continue your poker game, I would expect CF to have some knowledge about his opponents if he's going to continue playing his hand (especially if his hand is a weak hand, which to be fair we as supporters dont know either way). Can he realistically win this hand or should he just fold and move on to the next hand bearing in mind the stakes involved is a decision he's going to have to make. The last thing the supporters will want to hear is he went all-in on the river but got called by a 3rd division club should our season start falling apart early on. It seems he has already lost a few hands so far which perhaps he shouldn't have played.

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

I am not saying Argyle will find it comfortable or pretty this time around [far from it],but you would hope they would have learned something from last season. Like i said,i do not believe Argyle will be in the bottom two at any stage of the 2012-13 season,but they may flirt near the relegation zone on more than one occasion - ''hence the mid-season slump i predict,but it is rather rash to suggest Argyle will be in the bottom five all season,which i do not believe they will be''.

A good start for me would be to get a sizeable pointage gap between those teams who find themselves in the bottom two from the off and possibly stay there,or there abouts for some time.

In no way are Argyle going to do any better than a mid (12th) to low (17th) table finish. And i add that i am as baffled as everyone else is as to the shocking state of only two newbies arriving. I was under the assumption that the club did have some funds,albeit small,to get some decent-ish players down here.





If a club needed any good luck this term,then surely Argyle are that club.

VillageGreen wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

I predict a good start,a mid-season slump and a rally late on in the final stages. That is about the best we can all look forward to ?.

I'd like to know what your "good start" prediction is based on when it would appear many of our rivals have already been active in bringing in their A-list targets all ready for pre-season training. If we don't act soon we're going to be left behind and playing catch-up, again. Our current squad is a lot weaker than the struggling squad we finished the season with.

I am not saying Argyle will find it comfortable or pretty this time around [far from it],but you would hope they would have learned something from last season. Like i said,i do not believe Argyle will be in the bottom two at any stage of the 2012-13 season,but they may flirt near the relegation zone on more than one occasion - ''hence the mid-season slump i predict,but it is rather rash to suggest Argyle will be in the bottom five all season,which i do not believe they will be''.

A good start for me would be to get a sizeable pointage gap between those teams who find themselves in the bottom two from the off and possibly stay there,or there abouts for some time.

In no way are Argyle going to do any better than a mid (12th) to low (17th) table finish. And i add that i am as baffled as everyone else is as to the shocking state of only two newbies arriving. I was under the assumption that the club did have some funds,albeit small,to get some decent-ish players down here.





If a club needed any good luck this term,then surely Argyle are that club.

Well I hope your predictions turn out to be correct.

I'd say we rode our luck last season to narrowly survive. Rather than relying on more luck, I'd rather hope there's a real strategy in place to improve our squad and more importantly, our first XI. As things stand, our squad is starting to resemble Luggy MkII's squad, overbloated with too many mediocre players. Our next signings ought to be able to go straight into the first team.

I wouldn't say it was rash at all to place Argyle in the bottom 5 next season. The team at the moment is considerably weaker than the team that finished last season,and with a fair sprinkling of 1st year professionals in the squad the team is likely to struggle.

You have to be utter shit to be relegated from this league. We'll probably finish 17th and told to be grateful.

oddball wrote:

I wouldn't say it was rash at all to place Argyle in the bottom 5 next season. The team at the moment is considerably weaker than the team that finished last season,and with a fair sprinkling of 1st year professionals in the squad the team is likely to struggle.

I understand your point 100%. I will be the first to raise my hand if what you say does infold and Argyle are rooted in the bottom five of League Two for weeks (even months) on end.

I am hoping to go up to Yeovil on the 21st (although £43.20 is a bit steep for a day return) to see them huff and puff for 90 minutes. Ok,i know that you will not be able to gauge much from that game,but it will be a stern test none the less,and with Birmingham City and Preston North End at Home Park to follow,we may get to see what sort of style Carl Fletcher may adopt for the campaign ?.

Portsmouth at home in the League Cup is the start of the season in my eye and you would hope that whatever Carl Fletcher had [or has] up his sleeve regarding tactics,have been ironed out by then.

I am being rather optimistic i suppose.

Argyle already have a first team squad of 24- too big for this league, certainly bigger than most other teams-surely they need to ship out a few before they get any more in or we'll just see history repeating itself. Racking & Stacking players that are nothing but a drain on the budget.

The trouble is I can't see who they could ship out-anyone they could get rid of went a year ago, those that have been signed (or even re-signed) since then patently aren't wanted by anyone else.




And we're entering Aviva country with the old argument of "the manager's waiting for better value/players to lower their demands nearer the start of the season" a viewpoint that directly contradicts the "Reid could only sign those that no one else wanted" justification for last season's poor start.