Argyle fail with transfer targets

Story on BBC Website-

Quote :

Plymouth Argyle manager Carl Fletcher says the club has missed out on transfer targets because they cannot afford their wages.
Argyle are beginning their first full season since coming out of administration and being taken over by businessman James Brent.
Only two new faces have arrived in the summer in goalkeeper Rene Gilmartin and striker Paris Cowan-Hall.
"We've lost a few players because we can't match wages," Fletcher said.
"Things like that are disappointing, but that's the way football goes really," he added to BBC Radio Devon.
Fletcher says he is looking to improve his squad, but would not be drawn on what areas he would like to better.
The Devon club have only two experienced forwards in Nick Chadwick and Warren Feeney with 20-year-old Cowan-Hall having joined from non-league Woking and teenage youth products Matt Lecointe and Jared Sims also available.
"We've got five strikers at the minute and we aren't going to play any more than two or three," Fletcher said.
"So as it stands we're overloaded already, but we'll see how it progresses over the next few weeks."

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I hope to god we do sign a forward as the experienced two are crap and will be lucky to score 5 goals between them. At least he didn't say "you know".

I think we are in a mess of our own making.

We have a large squad by Division 4 standards yet hesides an untried kid and a reserve keeper it is the same bunch that managed (just) to not get us relegated last year.

It was quite apparent that we had a decent defence, yet if we wish to play a more eexpansive, passing game we needed different players, not least, over lapping full backs to join the attack. A it is if we play like the later part of last yera we will not concede many,. but neither will we scorre many.

The midfield were defensive in nature last season and to date nothing has changed to make you believe it will be different this. Now we have essentially the same attack, which is probab;ly in breach of the Advertising Standards Authority guidelines.

Now when CF says he cant compete, my immediate reply is "Why keep so mnay from last season" talk about make a rod for your own back. It also explains why at the sharp end where prices and wages tend to be more expensive we can only afford "talent" from 2 leagues below where we are.

Very disappointing so far Carl, fingers crossed you can turn it around over the next 6 weeks.

Oh dear.
To be expected, I would suggest
Jonah's comments remind me of Gardner's pointless and frankly bullshit statement "We'll pay a million for a CCC 25 goal a season striker". Still, at least Carl has got the same old naive South west club willing to sponsor his new career learning curve. I fully expect the curve to point downward fairly soon from an xy axis of minus 10,10.
Do people still fall for this sort of expectation management .... it's timing is becoming more precise than trying to stop the carrot root fly.
Cheers Carl ... whatever happened to that competitive budget we were told we had ? that kept us fans quiet for a while..... any comment about that ? .... No ? .... thought not... if we were outbid with our 'cmpetitive' budget, I would suggest we were out of our league and targetting the wrong players. Still, should give you the perfect excuse to start the season with naff all changes ... something us more seasoned veterans were expecting all along.
We may be ahead with our daffodils and cauliflowers, but we sure as hell have been behind in football pre seasons since Holloway. With the new uninterested owner, who out there thinks things are going to change any time soon ?
Pasoti moderators and contingency wallahs need not answer.

tonycholwell wrote:

I think we are in a mess of our own making.
We have a large squad by Division 4 standards yet hesides an untried kid and a reserve keeper it is the same bunch that managed (just) to not get us relegated last year.

It was quite apparent that we had a decent defence, yet if we wish to play a more eexpansive, passing game we needed different players, not least, over lapping full backs to join the attack. A it is if we play like the later part of last yera we will not concede many,. but neither will we scorre many.

The midfield were defensive in nature last season and to date nothing has changed to make you believe it will be different this. Now we have essentially the same attack, which is probab;ly in breach of the Advertising Standards Authority guidelines.

Now when CF says he cant compete, my immediate reply is "Why keep so mnay from last season" talk about make a rod for your own back. It also explains why at the sharp end where prices and wages tend to be more expensive we can only afford "talent" from 2 leagues below where we are.

Very disappointing so far Carl, fingers crossed you can turn it around over the next 6 weeks.

I agree Tony, this is disappointing news, you pin point the problem areas and we know Carl F is very defensive minded. It's early days but maybe a dour struggle again to score goals unless we can get some decent loanees.

Perhaps our competitive budget is for the Blue Square South?

Exeter sign a Welsh international midfielder (albeit one cap) and Torquay sign Billy Bodin today. The only news story about us is failure in the transfer market (which I would have thought would be like shooting fish in a barrel given the number of freed players?)

The real worry there is, fletcher saying we are overloaded with strikers

Block3Green wrote:

The real worry there is, fletcher saying we are overloaded with strikers

Agree with this.It has to be questioned if the overload contains enough quality to enable Argyle to make a genuine challenge this year-IMHO,the answer is no,just can't see enough goals from the players who comprise the strike force,unless Lecointe and Paris make big strides.As previous posters have commented,a clear out of some of the dead wood should have taken place this summer but was not undertaken and i hope to high heaven that Fletcher's judgement is correct.To be fair,it may be that Argyle have been outbid for certain players by clubs with a bit of cash to spare but the scenario still comes across as rather worrying.

Agree Greenskin. The strikers mentioned will struggle to get 20 goals between them.

tonycholwell wrote:

I think we are in a mess of our own making.

We have a large squad by Division 4 standards yet hesides an untried kid and a reserve keeper it is the same bunch that managed (just) to not get us relegated last year.

It was quite apparent that we had a decent defence, yet if we wish to play a more eexpansive, passing game we needed different players, not least, over lapping full backs to join the attack. A it is if we play like the later part of last yera we will not concede many,. but neither will we scorre many.

The midfield were defensive in nature last season and to date nothing has changed to make you believe it will be different this. Now we have essentially the same attack, which is probab;ly in breach of the Advertising Standards Authority guidelines.

Now when CF says he cant compete, my immediate reply is "Why keep so mnay from last season" talk about make a rod for your own back. It also explains why at the sharp end where prices and wages tend to be more expensive we can only afford "talent" from 2 leagues below where we are.

Very disappointing so far Carl, fingers crossed you can turn it around over the next 6 weeks.

I hope this isn't the start of an attempt to nail Fletcher exclusively for any forthcoming failings and allowing Mr Brent to escape unscathed,Tony.I may be wrong but your posts seems to be of a similar hue to that of someone on this site the other day who said that "Fletcher would be out by November" if things went wrong.I agree that a clear out should have taken place this summer but nonettheless,Argyle are hardly paying gold plated salaries to the likes of Lecointe,Lennox,Paris,Sims etc and should still,with season ticket sales and prospective gates potentially in the divisional top three,be able to outbid most teams in this league if indeed the budget is competitive.

I have been saying since Harry turned up that we would not be able to pay staff debts and compete in this dog shit league, I predict 5 years of toil to try and stay in this league until Harry has done his deals and swans off into the sunset like the banker he is.

Greenskin wrote:

Block3Green wrote:

The real worry there is, fletcher saying we are overloaded with strikers

Agree with this.It has to be questioned if the overload contains enough quality to enable Argyle to make a genuine challenge this year-IMHO,the answer is no,just can't see enough goals from the players who comprise the strike force,unless Lecointe and Paris make big strides.As previous posters have commented,a clear out of some of the dead wood should have taken place this summer but was not undertaken and i hope to high heaven that Fletcher's judgement is correct.To be fair,it may be that Argyle have been outbid for certain players by clubs with a bit of cash to spare but the scenario still comes across as rather worrying.

I want to hear news on the transfer front, and what do you get? Can't afford the wages of the targets we're looking at? And already overloaded with forwards?

There were several players retained who could or more relevantly should have been released at the end of the season, to make way for better players, but loyal Carl has decided the squad we already have will be playing attractive football and challenging for promotion out of the basement league. Unless Lecointe and Simms have bulked up considerably and gained experience somewhere on the quiet, we're in for another shit season.

I'm glad I haven't splashed out on a "membership" to hear news like this today. An inexperienced management team with little in the way of coaching experience, 2 experienced strikers who couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo, and have a better understanding with the physio than each other, and 3 promising but inexperienced young strikers, and a midfield that specialises in erecting barricades.

I hope Freathy's busy or away from his computer and doesn't see this news.
!

It's all a bit vague. The only hint we have is that they might have been strikers. Without knowing any of the details how can we assess quite how bad this is? If it means we have a budget and that we are sticking rigorously to it then I see it as a good thing because we should be the ones dictating the terms to players and not the other way around and if we can't afford them then we can't have them. If the past tells us almost nothing it at least tells us that much. On the other hand not knowing how big that budget is, how much of it was offered, who it was offered to and so on it is impossible to make a judgement on it that holds much water. We don't even know who the players were, which teams they came from or where they have gone or which divisions are involved.

I sort of took it that they weren't strikers, as we're ya know, overloaded wiv em right now.

Its a point Iggy. But Harry has said he doesn't need the Trusts money. I know that amount wouldn't go a long way but it's a fairly pointed statement that he's happy with the figures and that they stack up with his assertion that we can be competitive in the division.

The historic debt is interesting as of cousre the club isn't paying all of it with the Green Taverners and various auctions pitching in to ease the burden (a little? alot?).

Historically high wages should have more or less ceased to be a problem and turnover should be enough to give an advantage over all but the most monied of other teams.

Greenjock wrote:

I sort of took it that they weren't strikers, as we're ya know, overloaded wiv em right now.

It's not clear what he was saying at all. To start with he says we've missed targets and then continues to suggest that we are over-loaded with strikers anyway. GJ takes that to mean that the targets weren't strikers and I took it to mean that they are. Neither of us can be sure either way and Fletcher may have meant something else altogether.

Can't compete with teams in the fourth division on wages, i don't blame fletcher for that sad state of affairs i blame the superfans for being taken in by brent and persuading the simple farm folk to part with their hard earned to watch another season of sub standard shite.

The "competitive" budget is not so competitive then. Is anybody really surprised?

Where in the article does it say that we can't compete with 4th division teams or even that we were trying to?

Greenskin wrote:

tonycholwell wrote:

I think we are in a mess of our own making.

We have a large squad by Division 4 standards yet hesides an untried kid and a reserve keeper it is the same bunch that managed (just) to not get us relegated last year.

It was quite apparent that we had a decent defence, yet if we wish to play a more eexpansive, passing game we needed different players, not least, over lapping full backs to join the attack. A it is if we play like the later part of last yera we will not concede many,. but neither will we scorre many.

The midfield were defensive in nature last season and to date nothing has changed to make you believe it will be different this. Now we have essentially the same attack, which is probab;ly in breach of the Advertising Standards Authority guidelines.

Now when CF says he cant compete, my immediate reply is "Why keep so mnay from last season" talk about make a rod for your own back. It also explains why at the sharp end where prices and wages tend to be more expensive we can only afford "talent" from 2 leagues below where we are.

Very disappointing so far Carl, fingers crossed you can turn it around over the next 6 weeks.

I hope this isn't the start of an attempt to nail Fletcher exclusively for any forthcoming failings and allowing Mr Brent to escape unscathed,Tony.I may be wrong but your posts seems to be of a similar hue to that of someone on this site the other day who said that "Fletcher would be out by November" if things went wrong.I agree that a clear out should have taken place this summer but nonettheless,Argyle are hardly paying gold plated salaries to the likes of Lecointe,Lennox,Paris,Sims etc and should still,with season ticket sales and prospective gates potentially in the divisional top three,be able to outbid most teams in this league if indeed the budget is competitive.

Nope, its trying to analyse greeny where we are and what wriggle room there is.

It is clear that since Walton and Woots have been retained that we will not be getting a creative midfielder. You can live with that if you have more attack minded wide players both at full back and wide midfield. Its just that to date we have not strengthened those positions or central strikers with the exception of an untried kid. part the reason is as CF says, we have 5 strikers on the books.

I would have thought as a new manager he would have been aided with budgetary and staffing advice from above.

As I said earlier, we have CF saying he cant compete when logic and JB says we have a strong budget for this division. They both can't be right.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Where in the article does it say that we can't compete with 4th division teams or even that we were trying to?

First line of the artticle is a clue.

And we are in the 4th Division so it is there we must compete.

Well I doubt that Fletcher is stupid enough to think he could sign anyone of Championship standard, or who is interesting the likes of Sheff Utd or Swindon in League 1, but there are plenty of crap League 1 clubs who get average gates of less than 5k who can't be paying much in the way of wages, and even more crap League 2 clubs with even lower gates and we can't match them?

There are 7 clubs that will be either promoted automatically or involved in the play-offs, and more than likely another few clubs challenging for those play-off spots, so anything from 10-12 clubs, or almost half of League 2, and we won't be anywhere near challenging them with our current squad.

Meanwhile the James Brent empire keeps growing and growing with a little help from PCC, and we have a "competetive budget?"

Just once, just once in the last few years it would be great to have some good news for a change, and I don't mean the champagne cork popping news that James Brent had rode into town on his white horse to "save us".

I tink it is a superbly played hand of poker. He clearly has a striker or two in mind. They are playing hard to get over wages. So he is playing the bluff of we can't pay much. Magic!!!

(Or possibly not.)

I think the 'overloaded' with strikers is a bit disingenuous. Although I think we actually have 6 if you include Vassell

Sims and Vassell are 18 and Lecointe is 17, so you wouldn't really expect them to be on significant wages. Similarly you wouldn't be budgeting for them to be making too many first team appearances. I suspect there would be attempts to loan Vassell and/or Sims out for the season anyway.

Our 'first team strikers' therefore comprise of Feeney, Chadwick and Cowan (who can play on the wing as well I believe). There should be room for one more in there I think, perhaps a loanee from a higher league club where we don't have to pay too much in wages.

The article does actually read to me that CF is trying to bring another striker in though, so at least that suggests he is aware of the problem.

Same old same old innit. You know this sort of news is coming, but it still f ucking pisses you off don't it?

I'm so annoyed, I'd like to call someone a cnut.

Any takers?