The image of plymouth argyle

While we were in administration, we seemed to be having a 'love in' with every other club as they sympathised with our situation and wished us well, now the tides seem to be turning, in the eyes of other L2 clubs. Comments like this

Quote :

So Plymouth are about to go bankrupt and everything last season, receive a lot of support from fellow football fans, and then announce plans to build a new stand, annoys me a bit if I'm honest.

Quote :

Why are you pushing for promotion? go pay back all the people your club screwed over

Quote :

Remind us again (in simple terms that people like me can understand), how much of the alleged £17,000,000 debt are PA intending to pay back to all there creditors? This 0.07% or 0.021% in the pound doesn't seem very much to me.

Quote :

Hope argyle go down at some point, they deserve it after you somehow slipped out of liquidation

Quote :

plymouth have one of the highest budgets in the league according to their chairman, looks like their sugar daddy is set to buy them out of L2

and plenty more. I think some of these clubs that are commenting on argyle are perhaps jealous because they show no ambition and don't have the crowds?

It's almost like, because we have been in administration, we are therefore not allowed to be forward thinking.

"we are argyle, super argyle, nobody likes us, we don't care"

Thoughts?

I couldnt give two shits what the supporters of Barnet and Morecambe think.

Bogsider wrote:

I couldnt give two shits what the supporters of Barnet and Morecambe think.

ahem *macclesfield

I agree, It just confuses me

Its just too quick.

One minute we owe 17m and are begging every club to support us and now, less than one season later, we are building a new stand, telling everyone we have a competitive budget and want promotion.

If we had bumbled around for a few seasons quietly, no one would be saying a thing

Where are those comments from?

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Where are those comments from?

Twitter, the football forum.net, football forums, and various others I have seen on other club forums.

F**k um!!!

Its completely understandable though no matter from what supporters these comments come.One minute James Brent is saying "I'm only prepared to pay off the debts at 0.77p in the pound",whilst the next minute he is making plans to build a new stand.

Bleddy cheek! Unleash the dogs Mr President!

They do have a point though - but that's football these days.

Those comments just show how shallow the understanding of another club's trip through administration is. Brent has hardly thrown money at Argyle since he took over even if he does pay for a new stand. And the written off debts should fall to Stapleton, Todd, Gardner and Co not Brent. It wasn't Brent who frittered that money away so why should he pay it back?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Those comments just show how shallow the understanding of another club's trip through administration is. Brent has hardly thrown money at Argyle since he took over even if he does pay for a new stand. And the written off debts should fall to Stapleton, Todd, Gardner and Co not Brent. It wasn't Brent who frittered that money away so why should he pay it back?

Part of his response at the Cherry Tree to the question of whether he would pay anyone any more money back (I think the St John's Ambulance was mentioned) was 'that's not how it works'. I paraphrase but I think, essentially, that's what he said.

We'd say just the same if another club in our league did the same thing.

Crawley get slagged off 'cos their Chairman seems intent on "buying" success.


My opinion?

I'm ashamed to support a club that will build a new stand before it pays the staff-it's not a question of "how it works" it's a question of Honour.

Currently PAFC are a Club without Honour.

There's nothing to stop a wealthy hotel owner giving a donation to St John's Ambulance is there?


The way PAFC are run at the moment re minds me of the Monty Python sketch were a businessman cannot understand the concept of "charity" or doing something when there's nothing in it for him.

I couldn't agree more Grovehill. I've said from the beginning that I would prefer a world where each was given according to need etc etc but that's not where we are. Millionaires retaining their wealth whilst workers go without ain't my idea of we're all in this together.

We have a businessman as an owner. My hope is that as a successful businessman he will rub some of that off on the club. Within the bounds he has set, he has so far done what he promised and with that I'm impressed. The new grandstand time-scale is pleasingly quick.(We certainly need a few more quality signings!!!!)

All I'd say, though, is that we don't know whether he has tipped a few quid the St John's way quietly/anonymously. I guess if it were done publicly there would follow possible legal actions.

Quote :

plymouth have one of the highest budgets in the league according to their chairman, looks like their sugar daddy is set to buy them out of L2

I f***ing wish!!!!

Grovehill wrote:

We'd say just the same if another club in our league did the same thing.

Crawley get slagged off 'cos their Chairman seems intent on "buying" success.


My opinion?

I'm ashamed to support a club that will build a new stand before it pays the staff-it's not a question of "how it works" it's a question of Honour.

Currently PAFC are a Club without Honour.

There's nothing to stop a wealthy hotel owner giving a donation to St John's Ambulance is there?


The way PAFC are run at the moment re minds me of the Monty Python sketch were a businessman cannot understand the concept of "charity" or doing something when there's nothing in it for him.

What a lot of shoemakers or should that be cobblers.....the staff are not going to miss out...whatever happens about a stand, their payments will continue.....Brent is well aware of his responsibilities and will not shirk it.

Freathy wrote:

Quote :

plymouth have one of the highest budgets in the league according to their chairman, looks like their sugar daddy is set to buy them out of L2

I f***ing wish!!!!

Believe it or not we do have one of the highest budgets Freathy.
That is how shit this division is and the sooner Argyle are out of it the better ma booty!

Grovehill wrote:

I'm ashamed to support a club that will build a new stand before it pays the staff-it's not a question of "how it works" it's a question of Honour.
Currently PAFC are a Club without Honour.

Well the title of the thread referred to the image of the club and THAT is exactly the image they have ~ a club without honour owned by someone who says "that's not how it works"

How about the St Johns saying "that's not how it works" until they get paid then?

Brent's attitude is just typical of the capitalists and financial bodies who have pillaged the world of it's natural resources and now that they find their "system" is leading to finite meltdown STILL insist on being bailed out by the very same people they have been screwing for interest profit for so many years.

I close my bank account (or have as far as I'm concerned) and the bank who I have been subsidising through my tax contributions insist on repayment of what I "owe" them so I file for my own bankruptcy. I have no colateral so there's nothing they can take ~ sorry bank "it's just the way it works"

I wonder what my image is in their eyes? As if I care

The business that exist today is not the business that built up the debt of yesterday.

Morally, it stinks though.

Couple of points.

Whatever the wage budget is, it can only be 55% of gate income, if we have a bigger wage budget than Accrington, it's simple because we have better attendances.

Yes the staff will still get their money, that means they still have to wait over four years for half of what they are owed to be paid.

I suggest that they'll hardly be going to work with a spring in their step when they seen builders knocking up a several hundred thousands of pounds worth of hotel and football stand when they are still paying off overdrafts that they ran up to keep the club afloat.

How many of you would accept a payrise that gives you nothing for 5 years because the boss wants to build a new factory first?

Grovehill wrote:

Couple of points.

Whatever the wage budget is, it can only be 55% of gate income, if we have a bigger wage budget than Accrington, it's simple because we have better attendances.

Yes the staff will still get their money, that means they still have to wait over four years for half of what they are owed to be paid.

I suggest that they'll hardly be going to work with a spring in their step when they seen builders knocking up a several hundred thousands of pounds worth of hotel and football stand when they are still paying off overdrafts that they ran up to keep the club afloat.

How many of you would accept a payrise that gives you nothing for 5 years because the boss wants to build a new factory first?

Hi Grovehill, just a couple of points

The wage bill is 55% of turnover, not gate receipts, there is a big difference and initiatives like the new Grandstand and attracting more people to become members through conventional routes (season ticket) or bringing back old favourites like White memberships. I am sure the club are also keen on tapping into greater share of revenue from the business community which at the moment gives Albion a freeish run.

As far as the staff goes, words seem pretty ineffectual to convey the debt all of us owe them. But, to a man or woman they are Argyle fans which is why they stayed and saw Argyle through until the Brent purchase was finalised. I have no doubt many would have loved to had every penny owed, immediately, but they also knew the terms of the purchase and most I speak to are happy they are back to being paid in full and on time as well as receiving the installments as time goes on. It should not be forgotten either the accelerated staff payments, they are very much in the mix and people will not have to wait the full 4 and a half years to be paid off. I am not suggesting this makes up for having to wait but these are enot ordinary wage slaves!

Again, most of the staff I speak to are excited about the direction the club is going in and want the Grandstand built as soon as all of us. To be honest, I had hoped the ground would be completed, corners and all giving us a capacity of about 25k, but that is not to be at this development. So be it.

Let's be honest- if the deal was to pay all our debts and then wait a few years before embarking on any kind of profitable venture than no-one would be interested. No point being idealist about it cause if those were the demands set we'd be bust and no-one would be payed a penny.

I'm not sure I agree with that Sam.

Brent is a multi-millionaire banker and could have paid the staff back if it was really crucial to him taking over. The fact that he didn't is because he is a multi-millionaire banker.

We've been through this before on another website Tony, I don't know whether you are being deliberately obtuse, or you really fail to understand or are merely being mischievous (or are you an official spokesman for the unacceptable face of capitalism) May thoughts on your comments are bold & underlined


[quote="tonycholwell"]

Grovehill wrote:

Couple of points.

Whatever the wage budget is, it can only be 55% of gate income, if we have a bigger wage budget than Accrington, it's simple because we have better attendances.

Yes the staff will still get their money, that means they still have to wait over four years for half of what they are owed to be paid.

I suggest that they'll hardly be going to work with a spring in their step when they seen builders knocking up a several hundred thousands of pounds worth of hotel and football stand when they are still paying off overdrafts that they ran up to keep the club afloat.

How many of you would accept a payrise that gives you nothing for 5 years because the boss wants to build a new factory first?

Hi Grovehill, just a couple of points

The wage bill is 55% of turnover, not gate receipts, there is a big difference and initiatives like the new Grandstand and attracting more people to become members through conventional routes (season ticket) or bringing back old favourites like White memberships. I am sure the club are also keen on tapping into greater share of revenue from the business community which at the moment gives Albion a freeish run[b].It's still the same principle isn't it, we have a bigger budget because we have bigger crowds which either bring money in at the gate or are more valuable to advertisers sponsors etc-not because the owner is pumping more cash in.
[/b]
As far as the staff goes, words seem pretty ineffectual to convey the debt all of us owe them. But, to a man or woman they are Argyle fans which is why they stayed and saw Argyle through until the Brent purchase was finalised. I have no doubt many would have loved to had every penny owed, immediately, but they also knew the terms of the purchase and most I speak to are happy they are back to being paid in full and on time as well as receiving the installments as time goes on. It should not be forgotten either the accelerated staff payments, they are very much in the mix and people will not have to wait the full 4 and a half years to be paid off. I am not suggesting this makes up for having to wait but these are enot ordinary wage slaves! Can you, or anyone else guarantee that all staff debts will be cleared in full before the end of the five year period-no of course not. In fact, if the team don't do well on the field PDQ, it's possible that the club could fall into Administration again-hence the League's "leap of faith" I'm not surprised the staff are keeping quite about how they really feel about the money they are owed by JB-they were coerced into accepting a poor deal and those that declined it were threatened with public humiliation for scuppering the deal. The sum that JB was allegedly willing to put towards paying the FC debt when he first became involved was substantially greater than the amount he finally paid out at takeover. Given that he has sold club assets for a couple of million quid since then, I really do wonder why apparently intelligent people like you are still happy to support a bucket rattling campaign to pay of JB's liabilities. With a mindset like that, I expect you would support an increase in the civil list to compensate the Windsor family for having to work over the holiday weekend

[b][b][u][b]Again, most of the staff I speak to are excited about the direction the club is going in and want the Grandstand built as soon as all of us. To be honest, I had hoped the ground would be completed, corners and all giving us a capacity of about 25k, but that is not to be at this development. So be it.[/[/b]quo[/b]te][/u][u]

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with that Sam.

Brent is a multi-millionaire banker and could have paid the staff back if it was really crucial to him taking over. The fact that he didn't is because he is a multi-millionaire banker.

Brent would have paid the staff back in full but the football league wouldn't allow it. Under the football creditors rule the staff HAD to get exactly the same as the players.

I have had those thoughts about your small Cornish club since I can remember