The Ciderman

A series of interviews about his life and football career starts today in the Indy.Should be quite interesting,in fact there's already a bit of a titbit from Smithy about why we didn't make it to the top flight in his tenure;

"I would have liked to stay here [he left because the board wouldn't offer him an appropriate contract] to take Plymouth into the top flight and i think we could have done that.We were so close to doing it the season after we won promotion.We had a bad easter and the rest is history.If the board had given me a bit more money to spend on players,i think we would have done it that year"

Same old,same old! After that,Bloom and co drove Garry Nelson out of the club because of an absurd anomaly in his contract [read his book for further details,made me blush to be a Pilgrim] and took us down the inevitable path to the third division.And as a little antidote to the "apathetic janners are the root of all evil" brigade,Argyle's gates were the 6th best in the division in the season that Smithy refers to,above Stoke,WBA,Birmingham etc,still didn't lead to much outlay though.Lions led by donkeys.


Trust in Williams!
Trust in Daniel!
Trust in Bloom!
Trust in Stapes!

My favourite Argyle manager.

I think he's right; people talk about how close we came under Holloway, but Smithy's class of '86/'87 was a win or two away from the (first ever) playoffs. He had the mix of players absolutely spot-on; a bit of belief at Boardroom level and we'd have at least been in with a chance of the playoffs. We were top-two for much of that season (Derby were up there with us and eventually went up as Champions) and a couple of fresh faces in the run-in could have made all the difference.

Smithy's pre-match chats with the crowd, and surreal programme notes also marked him down as 'a bit different' but he was a terrific manager, and came within a whisker of making Argyle history.

That season I went to every home Saturday match and 15 away games. It was a great league with some big teams and we were a match for all of them.

Right down to the last game we still had a chance of makin the play offs. I have an old photo somewhere of Dave Smith, Stewart Houston and Gary Nelson withme at a hotel in Sunderland just before they set off for the ground, Roker Park back then.

I was so proud of being an Argyle fan back then and we should have made it to the promise land. At the time my dad used to say Argyle didn't want to get prooted, I thought he was talking out of his arse, now I'm not so sure!

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

When we stop making daft excuses for failure and sucking up to owners and, not be afraid to kick their ass now and again. Then we'll have a chance!

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

And proud of it

Tringreen wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

And proud of it

Don't forget we've also got the biggest flag in the WHOLE WORLD!!!!

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

I think we're actually 89th............... fanks to Fletch, the flag and Forzaviva

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

I mentioned something similar to PJ at the Q&A. I also had an article published by RotG (fanzine) where I struggled to understand why the Consortium bid was turned down (I now realise it was down to greed of the old board, supported by their foot-soldiers)

Dave Smith is my favourite all time Argyle manager, leagues above the petulant Carl Fletcher, it was during the Cidermands tenure that i first started going regularly......good man was Dave, shafted by another board...tis the Argyle way.

Chemical Ali wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

I mentioned something similar to PJ at the Q&A. I also had an article published by RotG (fanzine) where I struggled to understand why the Consortium bid was turned down (I now realise it was down to greed of the old board, supported by their foot-soldiers)

The same footsoldiers now grovelling for position from Brent Sahib. Flag wallah, Shirt framing wallah, pasty n pint wallahs

Wasn't it Dave Smith who used to throw his hat up in the air when we scored or won the match and then have to put out a plea for it to be returned.

Tringreen wrote:

Chemical Ali wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Freathy wrote:

When will we finally cure the Argyle 'disease'? Those who trusted in stapes would have known what happened back in 87 and should have seen grim history repeating itself. Tony Waiters, Dave Smith and Ollie should form their own little club - the shafted by usless, outclassed and/or greedy Argo chairmen club.

I know it's going back over old ground, but some of us did during the Holloway era and tried to do something about it, in terms of investing in the team whilst we were on the up. All hypothetical now, but I firmly believe we would be where Blackpool have been and are again, had that investment been accepted.

But it wasn't. Now we're the 88th best team in the country. Woo hoo.

I mentioned something similar to PJ at the Q&A. I also had an article published by RotG (fanzine) where I struggled to understand why the Consortium bid was turned down (I now realise it was down to greed of the old board, supported by their foot-soldiers)

The same footsoldiers now grovelling for position from Brent Sahib. Flag wallah, Shirt framing wallah, pasty n pint wallahs

You forgot Rick O Shay

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Wasn't it Dave Smith who used to throw his hat up in the air when we scored or won the match and then have to put out a plea for it to be returned.

the same,remember it at cardif,he got it back in the post,in the days we used to stick togeather as argo fans,well you had to at cardiiffshire,

I liked Smith's team, but for me my favourite Argyle managers were Tony Waiters for his community enthusiasm and eye for good footballers, and Billy Bingham for being a real gent and articulate charmer.
As for the closest to the top table, it has to be the Frank Lord team of the early 60s ... we were just about top at Christmas, and running the show, as I got the 'away trip' bug.

tcm wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Wasn't it Dave Smith who used to throw his hat up in the air when we scored or won the match and then have to put out a plea for it to be returned.

the same,remember it at cardif,he got it back in the post,in the days we used to stick togeather as argo fans,well you had to at cardiiffshire,

He nearly didn't get it back at Bournemouth though, well not until after a press appeal.

tcm wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Wasn't it Dave Smith who used to throw his hat up in the air when we scored or won the match and then have to put out a plea for it to be returned.

the same,remember it at cardif,he got it back in the post,in the days we used to stick togeather as argo fans,well you had to at cardiiffshire,

We didn't have the internet in those days and the self promoting control freaks had no vehicle to spread their web of deceit.

I was at elm park when we beat Reading 1-0 with a goal just before halftime. My mate had just nipped to the loo and pissed all over himself when he heard the roar when we scored. The toilets had no roof.

Dave Smith had gone into the dressing room early to prepare his team talk and gave it thinking it was still 0-0. He was chuffed with a point at full time until someone pointed out we had won the game

Greenjock wrote:

I was at elm park when we beat Reading 1-0 with a goal just before halftime. My mate had just nipped to the loo and pissed all over himself when he heard the roar when we scored. The toilets had no roof.

Dave Smith had gone into the dressing room early to prepare his team talk and gave it thinking it was still 0-0. He was chuffed with a point at full time until someone pointed out we had won the game

I remember that, I was there that day. It was said that after finding that we'd actually won the game, he sat there with a towel over his head. I don't think any of the players ever let him forget it. They used to ask him the score at the end of matches!

[quote="Andy_Symons"]My favourite Argyle manager.

I think he's right; people talk about how close we came under Holloway, but Smithy's class of '86/'87 was a win or two away from the (first ever) playoffs. He had the mix of players absolutely spot-on; a bit of belief at Boardroom level and we'd have at least been in with a chance of the playoffs. We were top-two for much of that season (Derby were up there with us and eventually went up as Champions) and a couple of fresh faces in the run-in could have made all the difference.

Smithy's pre-match chats with the crowd, and surreal programme notes also marked him down as 'a bit different' but he was a terrific manager, and came within a whisker of making Argyle history.[/quote]

i recall the game v west brom where he came out with the mic and spoke about not abusing the away support, something about 'boxing chants', which was roundly followed by a rendition of i do like to be beside the seaside!

that season was my only season ticket buying year... i learnt early

Bump.

Greenskin wrote:

A series of interviews about his life and football career starts today in the Indy.Should be quite interesting,in fact there's already a bit of a titbit from Smithy about why we didn't make it to the top flight in his tenure;

"I would have liked to stay here [he left because the board wouldn't offer him an appropriate contract] to take Plymouth into the top flight and i think we could have done that.We were so close to doing it the season after we won promotion.We had a bad easter and the rest is history.If the board had given me a bit more money to spend on players,i think we would have done it that year"

Same old,same old! After that,Bloom and co drove Garry Nelson out of the club because of an absurd anomaly in his contract [read his book for further details,made me blush to be a Pilgrim] and took us down the inevitable path to the third division.And as a little antidote to the "apathetic janners are the root of all evil" brigade,Argyle's gates were the 6th best in the division in the season that Smithy refers to,above Stoke,WBA,Birmingham etc,still didn't lead to much outlay though.Lions led by donkeys.


Trust in Williams!
Trust in Daniel!
Trust in Bloom!
Trust in Stapes!

 

The team he built which went up from Division Three was an awsome one, although i did not like that defeat at Wigan (i think we had 3000 there that day), i remember the Police telling all the Argyle fans to drink up or leave the beers outside the ground. As for that away end we stood on at Wigan that day, terrible.

I also remember going up to Derby County and seeing Argyle win 2-1.

Highlight was the thashing of Bristol City and clinching promotion. I was working that night and was glued to the radio....


That first season back in Division Two was bloody good, some decent football on offer and Argyle holding their own.

Those years were some of the best to have been an Argyle fan.

I believe that we could have got into the top division too, but sadly it was never to be...

Fantastic memories. Dave Smith was class and so were the team. I seem to remember him signing Kevin Godfrey (not sure if it the right name) on loan from Orient for a month. He gave us a big lift but Orient wouldnt let us keep him. Smithy then went out and replaced him with some guy called Tynan on loan ftom Rotherham. Tommy then smashed the league to pieces with ten goals in nine games.

I remember at Cardiff he threw his cap into the crowd and someone beat me to it. It was then he appealed in the papers for it back as it was his lucky cap. Fair play to the guy, he made sure Smithy got it back. I may reminisce later as still have his promotion diary in my sitting room.