Confused

Anyone else a bit confused at the moment, I mean do we still have a club to support and if we do is it still the same club?

I'm not sure if I'm a fan any more, in fact I'm not sure I should even be posting this on a fans website, WTF is going on and where do we stand on all this?

If you buy a ST is it worth it or will it just be giving a property developer money?

If like me and it's POTD is it worth it or am I just giving a property developer money?

Just, WTF?

Go and have a lie down, before you burst something.

I think we should rename the site "Plymouth Talk", far talk about anything Plymouth related because we no longer have a club worth supporting.

Problem for me is there is no possibility of any success coming to the club. I couldn't care less who owns Argyle as long as they pumped serious money into the playing side and ended the never ending cycle of Argyle failure. This is clearly not going to happen under Ridsdale and Heaney. All I can see is continuing miserable failure on the pitch while Heaney and Ridsdale (and probably *****wallet) rake in the property profits.

Exactly Freathy, so what's the point. PAFC is no longer the club we knew and supported, it's just a front for development.

It looks to me that this latest debacle has been 'planned' since way back. The club has probably not been promoted far and wide at all. It has been a messy carve up with directors and other interested parties jostling for position, getting their[the club's] money back etc etc.

Trouble is, none of them have any real money to offer.

It is truly nauseating.

Gob, in times of doubt, best not to beat oneself up about it.
Remember what this site says at the top ... it's for people who have a connection with Argyle, no matter how tenuous.... it isn't about self elected 'superfans'
Virtually every long term fan I know, and I know a great many, have taken years out for varying reasons, playing themselves, work commitments, unhappy with manager or owners, or just plain fed up with it .. it happens to almost every football fan.
It's not the fault of many fans that the club has been stolen at this present time.
People have been driven from their homelands all over the planet ... even the Dalai Lama was booted out. That does not mean they have no connection or right to contribute to the 'debate' and hold the desire to right the wrong..

Tringreen wrote:

It looks to me that this latest debacle has been 'planned' since way back. The club has probably not been promoted far and wide at all. It has been a messy carve up with directors and other interested parties jostling for position, getting their[the club's] money back etc etc.

Trouble is, none of them have any real money to offer.

It is truly nauseating.

I agree. This absolutely reeks of a Guilfoyle, Ridsdale and Heaney stitch up. I bet there was never any real attempt by BG to market the club more widely that could have attracted a proper investor to a club with real potential. Yet another missed opportunity to add to the long list in Argyle's miserable history.

penzancepirate wrote:

Gob, in times of doubt, best not to beat oneself up about it.
Remember what this site says at the top ... it's for people who have a connection with Argyle, no matter how tenuous.... it isn't about self elected 'superfans'
Virtually every long term fan I know, and I know a great many, have taken years out for varying reasons, playing themselves, work commitments, unhappy with manager or owners, or just plain fed up with it .. it happens to almost every football fan.
It's not the fault of many fans that the club has been stolen at this present time.
People have been driven from their homelands all over the planet ... even the Dalai Lama was booted out. That does not mean they have no connection or right to contribute to the 'debate' and hold the desire to right the wrong..

You're right Pirate but I feel very little, if any, affinity to the "business" at the moment!

And Tring, exactly my thoughts! This wasn't just a Gardener up of the past few seasons, this little fiasco was planned a long time ago, possibly a decade!

GOB wrote:

penzancepirate wrote:

Gob, in times of doubt, best not to beat oneself up about it.
Remember what this site says at the top ... it's for people who have a connection with Argyle, no matter how tenuous.... it isn't about self elected 'superfans'
Virtually every long term fan I know, and I know a great many, have taken years out for varying reasons, playing themselves, work commitments, unhappy with manager or owners, or just plain fed up with it .. it happens to almost every football fan.
It's not the fault of many fans that the club has been stolen at this present time.
People have been driven from their homelands all over the planet ... even the Dalai Lama was booted out. That does not mean they have no connection or right to contribute to the 'debate' and hold the desire to right the wrong..

You're right Pirate but I feel very little, if any, affinity to the "business" at the moment!

And Tring, exactly my thoughts! This wasn't just a Gardener up of the past few seasons, this little fiasco was planned a long time ago, possibly a decade!

I must admit that its increasingly difficult to take anything other than a cynical,almost paranoid, view of all things Argyle at the moment.We've been lied to ,deceived and betrayed for a period of at least four years and that is bound to take its toll on the trust and affection with which the club should be regarded.If a 25 year lease is granted to a faceless consortium who almost certainly will have no interest in the football side of things other than keeping a token team on the pitch [and finding other scapegoats for the inevitable failures],then i can see nothing other than continual decline-how could it possibly be any other? If a decent new stand is built and at least competitive resources are given to the manager,then i'll willingly eat humble pie,but i just can't see it-the two prospective signings have done nothing to challenge my opinions.I guess we'll have to see on Monday what the situation really is,but even any positive news will be regarded with suspicion and understandably so.It all makes you blush to be a Pilgrim,really,a very sad state of affairs.

Quite a battle going on, on the farm. The ruling class are noticeably quiet. Probably waiting to see which way it turns out before deciding which way to jump.

You'd think they'd have an opinion.http://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=55683

ps at least they are tolerating spirited debate and my cynical side tells me there's more than one reason for this newly found, relaxed approach. I daresay that once things are decided they will choose their horse and the dissenting voices will be turned upon with full vigour and indignation

Freathy wrote:

Problem for me is there is no possibility of any success coming to the club. I couldn't care less who owns Argyle as long as they pumped serious money into the playing side and ended the never ending cycle of Argyle failure. This is clearly not going to happen under Ridsdale and Heaney. All I can see is continuing miserable failure on the pitch while Heaney and Ridsdale (and probably *****wallet) rake in the property profits.

Hiya just signed up, just on the above, when the club was taken over from Dan McCualey, it was local businessman with no money, the ground was rented from the council and the club for the first 18-24 months was paying off money owed to Dan, now we didnt do too bad back then with 4-6 thousand coming through the turnstiles, and very little invested player wise, so i see no reason why we cant rise again. Free transfers are out there to grab, and just cus they are free it doesnt mean they are poor. This season is going to be difficult as the wage bill will be to high still due to Fletcher,Johnson and walton, but next season they will be gone and as long as we get people into the ground the club can rise again. Look at the recent history of clubs with tiny budgets, getting to L1 and even the championship, Bournmouth is a prime example.

Its not great not having the ground, but that was the only asset that stop the club from folding, it will be nice to start talking about signing players, and football again rather than the doom of the last 8 months.

It's been an administration pre-pack from day one with poor old James Brent stuck in the middle and used as a bail out in case Heaney's bid went wrong. Don't forget Heaney's first bid only came out in public in March, so how long as he actually been trying to buy Argyle?
All other bids have been shut out - Buttivant, Affinity Sports Finance, Kevin Ball and one I recently heard about that showed an interest but it wasn't followed through by Guilfoyle and co. There must have been others.

It's been an admin process done on the cheap. As soon as the Preferred Bidder was announced at the CVA meeting all the staff should have been paid, that's the idea of paying for Exclusivity Funding, apart from shutting out other bidders.

I feel the PB should have been paying the staff from 6th May, I'm all "donated" out and sadly I'm sure other fans are too. Money going into the club will help the staff, the PB will not worry about a ST boycott, it's football and nothing to do with him. I'll be buying a ST.

Ridsdale must be a (multi) millionaire and yet through clever planning and a pre-pack he picks up a football club for a quid and doesn't have to worry about all the debts and wages owed.

GOB wrote:

And Tring, exactly my thoughts! This wasn't just a Gardener up of the past few seasons, this little fiasco was planned a long time ago, possibly a decade!

I'm not sure if the individuals themselves saw this as their plan when they took over, and I know Michael Foot certainly didn't.
But there has probably been a subconcious group target of the 'money men' to take over the industry in general. Gill was certainly one of them and of course the present disgraced locals. For me the real dynamics are not just economic, they go all the way back to the implementation of the Taylor report, and the desire to change the football demographics. ...this has been done not just to make money and steal long held community enjoyed lands but also politically to numb a potential male centre of discontent should things go belly up in the wider world... 'they' just don't like a pile of guys gathering together, standing with their legs apart .. far too threatening... it had to go.

Rugby is accepted as their grounds are populated by the reasonably happy and prosperous middle classes that repect authority, they don't even harang the referee ffs.
Still, dear old Bedford Greens still pops onto Pasoti cheerfully a couple of times a season looking forward to a game standing on his beloved terraces... he always makes me smile.

In the end the only way is to starve them out .. always has been ... the football version of general strike ... no ifs, no buts ... toughen up..
In the meantime, I too have no afinity with these people whatsoever and boycotting will be a doddle. I shall probably listen to the radio on occasion though. Relegsation looks on the cards and perhaps the BSPremier might tempt me back when this lot have seen the light, been refused all the permissions they want, and have moved on.

GOB wrote:

Anyone else a bit confused at the moment, I mean do we still have a club to support and if we do is it still the same club?

I'm not sure if I'm a fan any more, in fact I'm not sure I should even be posting this on a fans website, WTF is going on and where do we stand on all this?

If you buy a ST is it worth it or will it just be giving a property developer money?

If like me and it's POTD is it worth it or am I just giving a property developer money?

Just, WTF?

That would be a shame GOB, I know you have been crying out for the club to fold, and start again, but that truly would be the end, lets just make it clear the club is seperate from the property deal, so every hard earned pound we spend at home park will go into the club. I know you can say we are paying rent for the ground, so in theory we are lining the pockets of the developers, but as soon as we went bust, the ground was always gone. No one wants the football club, only the land, which is a shame, and with no sugar daddies we should be grateful PAFC is still breathing. I have read enough on this site to know your veiws on the riddler, and although i am most definetly not a fan, im prepared to see where he takes us over the next couple of years. Personally i feel within the next 3-5 years Kevin Heaney will have sold off truro and will be the official owner and chairman.

But the club can only progress with the fans support, so i hope you reconsider and get behind the greens once again.

PL2 3DQ wrote:

It's been an administration pre-pack from day one with poor old James Brent stuck in the middle and used as a bail out in case Heaney's bid went wrong.

Very true Postey, although I am not quite sure if Brent has actually been used or whether he's been in on the whole deal with the blessing of the council. Brent's part does however show they are not 100% sure of gaining the Football League approval, let alone the much harder job of getting enough permissions to make their property plans viable.
I still think there is a chance they'll come a cropper, but in the meantime they intend to rock on without a care for staff and with the club headed for the BSP.... they're going to be hugely, massively unpopular... probably sub 4000 crowds come Christmas ... serve 'them' right.

125+1 wrote:

Freathy wrote:

Problem for me is there is no possibility of any success coming to the club. I couldn't care less who owns Argyle as long as they pumped serious money into the playing side and ended the never ending cycle of Argyle failure. This is clearly not going to happen under Ridsdale and Heaney. All I can see is continuing miserable failure on the pitch while Heaney and Ridsdale (and probably *****wallet) rake in the property profits.

Hiya just signed up, just on the above, when the club was taken over from Dan McCualey, it was local businessman with no money, the ground was rented from the council and the club for the first 18-24 months was paying off money owed to Dan, now we didnt do too bad back then with 4-6 thousand coming through the turnstiles, and very little invested player wise, so i see no reason why we cant rise again. Free transfers are out there to grab, and just cus they are free it doesnt mean they are poor. This season is going to be difficult as the wage bill will be to high still due to Fletcher,Johnson and walton, but next season they will be gone and as long as we get people into the ground the club can rise again. Look at the recent history of clubs with tiny budgets, getting to L1 and even the championship, Bournmouth is a prime example.

Its not great not having the ground, but that was the only asset that stop the club from folding, it will be nice to start talking about signing players, and football again rather than the doom of the last 8 months.

Welcome to the forum my friend and a good try at cheering us up.

We all know the potential of the club and it will always rise through the lower leagues when the right manager is in place. It's what happens when we get back to those dizzy heights that is crucial.

125+1 wrote:

Freathy wrote:

Problem for me is there is no possibility of any success coming to the club. I couldn't care less who owns Argyle as long as they pumped serious money into the playing side and ended the never ending cycle of Argyle failure. This is clearly not going to happen under Ridsdale and Heaney. All I can see is continuing miserable failure on the pitch while Heaney and Ridsdale (and probably *****wallet) rake in the property profits.

Hiya just signed up, just on the above, when the club was taken over from Dan McCualey, it was local businessman with no money, the ground was rented from the council and the club for the first 18-24 months was paying off money owed to Dan, now we didnt do too bad back then with 4-6 thousand coming through the turnstiles, and very little invested player wise, so i see no reason why we cant rise again. Free transfers are out there to grab, and just cus they are free it doesnt mean they are poor. This season is going to be difficult as the wage bill will be to high still due to Fletcher,Johnson and walton, but next season they will be gone and as long as we get people into the ground the club can rise again. Look at the recent history of clubs with tiny budgets, getting to L1 and even the championship, Bournmouth is a prime example.

Its not great not having the ground, but that was the only asset that stop the club from folding, it will be nice to start talking about signing players, and football again rather than the doom of the last 8 months.

First of all,welcome to AT,i hope your stay is a long and interesting one.I think your statement about very little money being spent on players in the first Sturrock spell is rather simplistic.Money was not spent on high transfer fees certainly,but players such as Coughlan,Hodges,Evans,Worrell,Keith,etc were playing at a reasonably high standard of football at the time [higher than League 2 ,thats for sure] and would not have come to the club without reasonable financial inducement.That would probably have been bankrolled by Nic Warren,who's presence has been sadly missed since his resignation on a matter of principle at a later date.The scenario at the moment is more akin to the Hodges era,when players were brought in on the cheap [with one or two exceptions,Hargreaves,McGregor etc] and proved to be of little use to Argyle ultimately.I agree that some good players can be picked up on the cheap but as a general rule,you get what you pay for and if you bring in rag tag and bobtail players,you'll end up with a rag tag and bobtail team.I honestly don't think that the ground/ownership issues can be seperated from the playing side-they are inexticably linked and will decide our destiny over the next few years,there's much water to flow under the bridge yet,i fear.

This is the question I keep asking myself: Can I continue to support the team I have supported for the last 25 years when I fundamentally disagree with the way the club has been run and the people who are now likely to be in charge? Do I go along to games and protest? Could I take pleasure in any future successes the club has? I simply do not know. I feel violated and not in a nice, sexy way like usual but in a dark, empty way that leaves me crying inside and in desperate need of a Horlicks and a lie down.

Yours

Droly

droly wrote:

This is the question I keep asking myself: Can I continue to support the team I have supported for the last 25 years when I fundamentally disagree with the way the club has been run and the people who are now likely to be in charge? Do I go along to games and protest? Could I take pleasure in any future successes the club has? I simply do not know. I feel violated and not in a nice, sexy way like usual but in a dark, empty way that leaves me crying inside and in desperate need of a Horlicks and a lie down.

Yours

Droly

Welcome,Droly.Its good'ere!

droly wrote:

This is the question I keep asking myself: Can I continue to support the team I have supported for the last 25 years when I fundamentally disagree with the way the club has been run and the people who are now likely to be in charge? Do I go along to games and protest? Could I take pleasure in any future successes the club has? I simply do not know. I feel violated and not in a nice, sexy way like usual but in a dark, empty way that leaves me crying inside and in desperate need of a Horlicks and a lie down.

Yours

Droly

Forget the horlicks and get down the pub !

droly wrote:

This is the question I keep asking myself: Can I continue to support the team I have supported for the last 25 years when I fundamentally disagree with the way the club has been run and the people who are now likely to be in charge? Do I go along to games and protest? Could I take pleasure in any future successes the club has? I simply do not know. I feel violated and not in a nice, sexy way like usual but in a dark, empty way that leaves me crying inside and in desperate need of a Horlicks and a lie down.

Yours

Droly

My depression comes from knowing that there are further violations on the way.

What happens if we discover the next Rooney or Owen? Where will the multi million pound transfer fee go?

It's good to see the new posters on here just a tragedy that it comes as a result of the implosion of Argyle.

I'm with Posty, the Riddler cannot change his spots/ stripes.

Perhaps in a crooked world, the best person to run the club would be a crook!

With what we have left and potential new signings, depending on who is shifted on, i dont think its looking to bad though is it really, example

Romain Larreu

Durrell Berry Bonz N'Gala Curtis Nelson Robbie Williams

Simon Walton Damian Johnson Carl Fletcher Luke Young

Joe Mason Liam Dickinson


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