So what exactly are peoples gripes about Fletcher as manager?

Yes I have read the thread on here of "Sack Fletcher" and several other mainly negative opinions of Fletcher recently.But the reality in terms of form is that (according to Darren Purse today) we have acheived 7 clean sheets in 13 games and conceeded only six goals and have held our own against top of the table teams.We are now very close to finalising league survival,so what is it exactly that are people unhappy with Carl Fletcher about e.g tactics,team selection,negative play,communication ,motivation,managerial ability what?.Lets be specific shall we?

Nobody can argue with the fact that Fletcher has done the job of keeping us up, hopefully.

Fair comments Aka.

I am not as negative as a number of people are or have been. I worry about his inexperience and I worry about some of his tactics especially at home. It has long been an established given that the onus is on the home side to go forward and try to win games. Our set up this season has often not been that.

However, having said that, we are hard to beat and when you are in the position we are and have been that maybe is what is needed even if the supporters would rather the team go for it everytime. Whether people like it or not we were according to most and me included at times, dead and burried this season with not a hope of getting out of a third relegation yet here we are almost there mathmatically. This does vindicate Fletcher and his tactics and style no matter how horrible it looks. He is inexperienced of course. Any manager in his first season and job is that no matter who he is. Most would have said we needed experience including me. Once again however, he has taken us to safety against all the odds.

So, what do we know. I have said previously that you cannot slag a manager when he fails and not give credit when a job is done. Either he is resposible for everything good and bad or he isn't responsible for anything but you cannot have it both ways. I still honestly can't decide if he should keep the job or not. I would not be upset too much if he either left or stayed. I try not to sit on the fence but in his case it is difficult not to.

What makes me laugh is the people on here clamoring for Fletcher's head believe that a change of manager will automatically be more successful than CF but football doesn't work that way does it. A lot of clubs do better with some kind of structure and stability and that's where we are right now.
He's done a good job (not great) but we may have just unearthed a manager who can go on from here.

I agree with a lot of what Sensible has written, not something that happens often We are safe barring a miracle series of results, but I honestly feel that we have been really fortunate in a few games lately. Hanging on for the majority of games, rather than taking any kind of control. If we're good enough to get an early goal, why then sit back and let teams come at you for the remainder of the game? It's been like attack against defence.

He never seems to have a plan b when things are not happening for us, it's just like for like substitutions if your lucky, and these are generally made too late in the game to make any difference.

Having said that, if his remit was to keep us up at any cost, then he has achieved that. If he made a big statement, when we are mathematically safe, along the lines of, "I was told to avoid relegation. This has meant playing the game in a totally different way than I would like to have been doing. With some new faces and a full pre-season with a full squad, I will be targetting promotion next season and will be advocating a much more attacking/entertaining style of football" then I would be willing to say let him have the chance and see how it goes. Then after a few games if the style hasn't changed and we are not challenging for promotion, I would want him replaced.

We're still in the FL, what more can be said!

The real test will be next season when we really should be challenging for promotion.

I think Fletch should be given until October/November to show what he can do. If we're not pushing for promotion then he should be replaced.

Yes, seemingly job done bar a horrific miracle - even if it has been done 'ugly' - so fair play indeed.

What does Fletcher have in the way of coaching qualifications, does anyone know? He's very young and only recently stopped playing, so in the absence of factual knowledge I would imagine not many. If he elects or is elected to stay on next season, hopefully the club can fund some training for the bloke over the summer.

Head on the block here, but do you believe that coaching qualifications make much of a difference?

GOB wrote:

We're still in the FL, what more can be said!

The real test will be next season when we really should be challenging for promotion.

It will Gob, yes. But that's where a whole new problem arises.

Look at that squad and the results it (collectively) is achieving. How many of them (individually) are of the required quality to operate consistently at the top end of this league?

I would say three. Cole, Blanchard, and Bhasera. Another that falls easily into that bracket is McDonald - but he ain't ours to keep.

Bhas will almost certainly be offloaded too, unless he fancies a hefty wages slash.

So for me, unless there is big investment pre-season, the best we can hope for is mid-table monotony.

My guess is that Fletch will be offered the chance to carry on, but on a vastly reduced salary. I'm not convinced he has the contacts or tactical awareness to bring success next year, but that's not my call, that's down to Webby and NoolBrent's advisors to advise him accordingly.....

I only have one 'problem' with Fletch, and that's his managerial inexperience. And yes, I'm fully aware that every manager has to start somewhere, and it's not his fault that this is his first job in club management. With all that in mind, I actually think he's done a decent job. When he took over we were already looking like we'd need snookers in order to stay up, so to get to this point is no mean feat.

I can't help wondering whether a more experienced manager may have got more out of the squad, but that's a minor quibble. And yes, before anyone goes digging back, my views have changed recently. He's winning me over.

The major complaints against Fletcher are that the team has played too poorly too often at home and seems to have been sent out with entirely negative tactics in away games. Both of which are true and genuine reasons to grumble. He's horribly inarticulate in interviews too. Although this is also true it is not a reason to grumble. It doesn't matter one bit. The bigger picture is that he was tasked to keep us up and he has. Nothing else matters. Staying up justifies everything. He should have either a 2 year contract or a rolling 6 monther put in front of him forthwith. This talk of "giving himn a few games" is nonsense. We need stability and we need to establish some kind of new club ethos around because every last thing we had before was blown apart. The last thing we need is yet another new manager, new coaches, new scouts, new players and new tactics. It's time to build on what we have built up against the odds and not to tear it all down again.

Since February... P14 W5 D7 L2 for 22 points. Which would be 72 points in a season, which is playoff form.

Though how the heck we won on Saturday I'll never quite know! But it makes up for Dagenham and Macclesfield where we should have won but didn't.

If we stay up, job done. That it's not pretty doesn't matter. There aren't many teams that will only have let in 6 goals in their last 13 games.

Next season, expectations will be higher, and a new test awaits...

It's all opinions isn't it. Nice to have a football discussion! Even I can say Fletcher has been successful in achieving a given target but IMHO it's been despite him and not because of him. The determination and fight that the players have demonstrated being the major factor for me. I just worry that we'll see another wasted season before the powers that be decide he isn't up to it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong because I'm running out of seasons.

Charlie Wood wrote:

It's all opinions isn't it. Nice to have a football discussion! Even I can say Fletcher has been successful in achieving a given target but IMHO it's been despite him and not because of him. The determination and fight that the players have demonstrated being the major factor for me. I just worry that we'll see another wasted season before the powers that be decide he isn't up to it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong because I'm running out of seasons.

I'm with you Charlie. Fore !

Job done in keeping us up? Very nearly. Do I think Fletch is any good? Not at all. He is completely incapable of changing a match or even tactics, you see the other team change their style as 'Shots did on Saturday and start playing around the outside of our team and what does Fletch do? Keep it narrow as fek and hope that Purse and Blanchard can hang on. He then brings on Sumo and Fletch but leaves them totally isolated as if we were 1 0 up against Swindon away. The football is boring, unimaginative and very unlikely to WIN games. If we have to put up with another season of watching Fletch achieve draws against the likes of Aldershot, Hereford and Macclesfield I am afraid I will have better things to do than watch that shite on a Saturday, fans deserve better, pity a few more don't demand it.

Iggy wrote:

Job done in keeping us up? Very nearly. Do I think Fletch is any good? Not at all. He is completely incapable of changing a match or even tactics, you see the other team change their style as 'Shots did on Saturday and start playing around the outside of our team and what does Fletch do? Keep it narrow as fek and hope that Purse and Blanchard can hang on. He then brings on Sumo and Fletch but leaves them totally isolated as if we were 1 0 up against Swindon away. The football is boring, unimaginative and very unlikely to WIN games. If we have to put up with another season of watching Fletch achieve draws against the likes of Aldershot, Hereford and Macclesfield I am afraid I will have better things to do than watch that shite on a Saturday, fans deserve better, pity a few more don't demand it.

Youuuum naaaaaaat a praaaaaaaper fan Iggy ! Get along to the fanfests and sell some GT /Pasoti clothing !

Charlie Wood wrote:

It's all opinions isn't it. Nice to have a football discussion! Even I can say Fletcher has been successful in achieving a given target but IMHO it's been despite him and not because of him. The determination and fight that the players have demonstrated being the major factor for me. I just worry that we'll see another wasted season before the powers that be decide he isn't up to it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong because I'm running out of seasons.

So where was the fight and spirit under reid, if thats the case. Give Fletcher ther credit he derserves, he's the one who rallies the players, organises, coaches and dictates the tactics, with your logic there, your saying Argyle would be safe without a manager as the players would have just got on with it.

Iggy wrote:

Job done in keeping us up? Very nearly. Do I think Fletch is any good? Not at all. He is completely incapable of changing a match or even tactics, you see the other team change their style as 'Shots did on Saturday and start playing around the outside of our team and what does Fletch do? Keep it narrow as fek and hope that Purse and Blanchard can hang on. He then brings on Sumo and Fletch but leaves them totally isolated as if we were 1 0 up against Swindon away. The football is boring, unimaginative and very unlikely to WIN games. If we have to put up with another season of watching Fletch achieve draws against the likes of Aldershot, Hereford and Macclesfield I am afraid I will have better things to do than watch that shite on a Saturday, fans deserve better, pity a few more don't demand it.

But saying that, it was/could be good enough to keep us up, and thats all that matters.

Im pretty certain you would be the first to be screaming if we played brilliant passing football with no cutting edge, and were relagated. Hmm Peter Reid springs to mind here, excellent passing football, but sideways and backwards.

Lessons need to be learnt though, if Brent does not want Fletcher he should be gone as soon as his contract is up or by June the latest, get a replacement in so for once in 3 years the club can have stability, and a proper pre-season.

125+1 wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

It's all opinions isn't it. Nice to have a football discussion! Even I can say Fletcher has been successful in achieving a given target but IMHO it's been despite him and not because of him. The determination and fight that the players have demonstrated being the major factor for me. I just worry that we'll see another wasted season before the powers that be decide he isn't up to it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong because I'm running out of seasons.

So where was the fight and spirit under reid, if thats the case. Give Fletcher ther credit he derserves, he's the one who rallies the players, organises, coaches and dictates the tactics, with your logic there, your saying Argyle would be safe without a manager as the players would have just got on with it.

Reid only had boys and the yelling Walton
Purse and Wotton probably organised the dire, they shall not pass football, and it was just good enough to stay up because other little clubs like Maggots n Bulls basically imploded.

Don't know how Fletch could have told them how to play. He can hardly get a few errrrrm y'know words out.

What has media communication got to do with managing football players? People seem to be hung up on that aspect without looking at the points total amassed since his managership began. The results are what managers are judged by not being a smooth talker. Either a manager makes a difference or he doesn't. If you think they don't then none of the managers make a difference including Ferguson etc. If you think they do then all of them do and Fletcher would have to be included like it or not. Lets face it, a lot of people repeat with things like "yooouuur naaat a prappperr fan" on this forum spelt in various ways.

I don't think anyone has said that Fletcher is the greatest thing since sliced bread but whatever you say about him, you cannot get away from the fact that this club looked buried and have managed to drag themselves out of the mire under his managership.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

What has media communication got to do with managing football players? People seem to be hung up on that aspect without looking at the points total amassed since his managership began. The results are what managers are judged by not being a smooth talker. Either a manager makes a difference or he doesn't. If you think they don't then none of the managers make a difference including Ferguson etc. If you think they do then all of them do and Fletcher would have to be included like it or not. Lets face it, a lot of people repeat with things like "yooouuur naaat a prappperr fan" on this forum spelt in various ways.

I don't think anyone has said that Fletcher is the greatest thing since sliced bread but whatever you say about him, you cannot get away from the fact that this club looked buried and have managed to drag themselves out of the mire under his managership.

I only saw one game with Fletcher manager at Oxford. It was men against boys. A few months later we had men. They can organise themselves at the dregs end of Div 2.

There's little point arguing, as the proof will be in the pudding. He almost certainly will get the job and the club will almost certainly IMO, spend at least another two seasons down among the dead men.

Fletcher's remit was I assume to keep us up and that's what he's done. Not being able to attend as many games as I would have liked means that most others will be better qualified then me to provide an opinion on the tactics and standard of football, but at the end of the day Fletcher successfully completed his remit so he should surely be given at least a starting chance next season?

So what is the point in having a manager at all in this league then? If players can manage themselves at this level there is no point in either having one or if we have to per league rules then it being Fletcher. Clubs could save a lot and spend it on players if there wasn't any manager at all. Ever joined in a discussion of which manager you would like if they matter so little anyway? Bet you have.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

So what is the point in having a manager at all in this league then? If players can manage themselves at this level there is no point in either having one or if we have to per league rules then it being Fletcher. Clubs could save a lot and spend it on players if there wasn't any manager at all. Ever joined in a discussion of which manager you would like if they matter so little anyway? Bet you have.

Is being utterly pedantic your only skill ?