Government report slams Plymouth Argyle trust loan to club

Just seen this on the harold site. Looks like stapleton and the other trustees could be in trouble.

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Over to you Freathy.........

And dont forget Trings response..............

It was a sorry affair and no mistake. I would love to hear the speech that Stapleton gave to the Trustees. It must have been 'compelling'. This is a man who has used the 'I didn't know what was going on' defence about the running of the club but was happy to present a dodgy valuation of the club to the Trustees. He must of known the figures he was presenting were shaky to say the least.

The Trustees must have been under enormous pressure.

Will the full report be available to the public? It should be, given that the money we're talking about was ultimately as a result of fundraising by ordinary supporters. The Herald report gives us the general pictue, but the details of the report should make for fascinating reading; although if I were one of the Trustees I'd be mightily relieved that the money is being repaid, and hugely embarrassed that decisions were made on the basis of one man's ability to play to a crowd, without asking to see details of the valuation (£7 million - and they fell for it!!) and the supposed offer that had been made. Naive at best.

As for Stapleton: Oh dear. Oh very dear. I suspect that Inspector Knacker may be wanting a word.

I doubt the report will be made public. Some of the money was donated by M.O.P. but a large tranche of it was from the sale of the hostel, the value of which they may or may not wish to make public. However, I would think it would be too hard to find out from the Land Registry.

Another piece of damning evidence against Paul Stapleton and his business acumen and morals. I wouldn't want him to be my accountant!

Trust in Stapes

Enjoy the ride.

Year on year progress

The organic model

I'll never hear a bad word said about that man

And he was a 'run by fans for fans' local boy.

ps Not available for comment............ probably taking a shower !

Tring -

To be fair, having read the report now, it's obvious that as well as being misled by Stapleton (did I say misled? Lied to might equally apply), the Trustees failed in their duties quite spectacularly. They failed to declare their interest in PAFC -from being season ticket holders to shareholders and directors. They failed to follow what I would term 'due diligence' in verifying the veracity of the information supplied to them. They failed to take account of the stated aims of the Trust, and failed to take appropriate professional advice.

It seems that what they actually did was 'Trust in Stapes'.

Whilst our headline outrage may well be directed at Paul Stapleton, for his duplicity and putting self interest above the best interests of the club, we really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Trustees singularly failed in their duties, and as a result £340, 000 (ish) of money that was ultimately raised by ordinary supporters came within a whisker of being lost forever. Lazy, incompetent, and badly led, I would hope that on seeing this report, the Officers of the T&DT would offer their resignations, and Ken Jones should follow suit, assuming he is not one of the Officers..

Edited to add:

The references in the report to Green Pilgrim Ltd (The company set up by James Brent to facilitate the takeover) are quite interesting and give us our first real insight into his negotiating style and approach. On this viewing, he certainly seems to have been quite hard-nosed in his dealings with the T&DT, to say the least.

Andy_Symons wrote:

Tring -

To be fair, having read the report now, it's obvious that as well as being misled by Stapleton (did I say misled? Lied to might equally apply), the Trustees failed in their duties quite spectacularly. They failed to declare their interest in PAFC -from being season ticket holders to shareholders and directors. They failed to follow what I would term 'due diligence' in verifying the veracity of the information supplied to them. They failed to take account of the stated aims of the Trust, and failed to take appropriate professional advice.

It seems that what they actually did was 'Trust in Stapes'.

Whilst our headline outrage may well be directed at Paul Stapleton, for his duplicity and putting self interest above the best interests of the club, we really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Trustees singularly failed in their duties, and as a result £340, 000 (ish) of money that was ultimately raised by ordinary supporters came within a whisker of being lost forever. Lazy, incompetent, and badly led, I would hope that on seeing this report, the Officers of the T&DT would offer their resignations, and Ken Jones should follow suit, assuming he is not one of the Officers..

Edited to add:

The references in the report to Green Pilgrim Ltd (The company set up by James Brent to facilitate the takeover) are quite interesting and give us our first real insight into his negotiating style and approach. On this viewing, he certainly seems to have been quite hard-nosed in his dealings with the T&DT, to say the least.

Not arguing with you Andy. Just being my usual annoying self

And I am regularly being told to be quiet, don't ask questions of people that we have met and looked in the eye and trust. Well after all this it amazes me that people are spouting that crap.

I knew this was going to come back and haunt *****wallet eventually. Will he have his collar felt by D&C's fraud unit? Maybe not but if he was being less than honest with the Trustees in order to secure the loan (fans money!) to save his own investment then that is as morally reprehensible as it gets. This clown was completely out of his depth as a chairman of a Championship club but seemed desparate to cash in all the same. Selling Ollies team to fatten accounts to intice the japs, the world cup farce, and when it all inevitably went massively tits up he seemingly tried this little wheeze to try and get out of the shit. And are Ridsdales fingerprints on this too?

trust in stapes

Andy_Symons wrote:

the money we're talking about was ultimately as a result of fundraising by ordinary supporters.

.............and this is the biggest factor and something that either the trustees of the group or the fans of the club in general should never lose sight of.

As one of the four exiled supporters who worked closely with Supporters Direct in setting the wheels in motion for the Torquay United Trust to come into being, I maintain a keen interest in the various trusts around the country and the events they manage to embroil themselves in where they clearly shouldn't.

In short, supporters trusts are there to represent supporter interest and to try and procure a representation on the boards of the clubs they support. They are not there to bail out failing business models or repay the debts of those who have mismanaged their clubs.

So it would be prudent to point out at this time that the misguided fund raising from the general fan base of Plymouth Argyle to pay specific sections of the many people and businesses owed money by the football club (those employees having to wait 5 years for James Brent to cough up) is merely throwing "good money after bad" that would be better served being utilised for constructive programmes which should be able to stand in perpetuity for Plymouth Argyle supporter interest for all time rather than prop up the under invested and foolishly run business modules of the incumbent board or owners ~ whoever they may be.

The paying of those employees is James Brent's responsibility now, not the supporters of the club!

The hostel for youth trainees was an excellent project that should have stayed within the ownership of the supporters to then "loan" or rent to the football club as they saw fit................now they have lost it!

merse wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

the money we're talking about was ultimately as a result of fundraising by ordinary supporters.

.............and this is the biggest factor and something that either the trustees of the group or the fans of the club in general should never lose sight of.

As one of the four exiled supporters who worked closely with Supporters Direct in setting the wheels in motion for the Torquay United Trust to come into being, I maintain a keen interest in the various trusts around the country and the events they manage to embroil themselves in where they clearly shouldn't.

In short, supporters trusts are there to represent supporter interest and to try and procure a representation on the boards of the clubs they support. They are not there to bail out failing business models or repay the debts of those who have mismanaged their clubs.

So it would be prudent to point out at this time that the misguided fund raising from the general fan base of Plymouth Argyle to pay specific sections of the many people and businesses owed money by the football club (those employees having to wait 5 years for James Brent to cough up) is merely throwing "good money after bad" and would be better served being utilised for constructive programmes which should be able to stand in perpetuity for Plymouth Argyle supporter interest for all time rather than prop up the under invested and foolishly run business modules of the incumbent board or owners ~ whoever they may be.

The paying of those employees is James Brent's responsibility now, not the supporters of the club!

The hostel for youth trainees was an excellent project that should have stayed within the ownership of the supporters to then "loan" or rent to the football club as they saw fit................now they have lost it!

Interesting post. Re the italicised section, do you not think that for a relatively short period this was an acceptable step if it salvaged the club from liquidation?

Merse - In this case, it wasn't the Argyle Fans' Trust that was involved; it was another organisation - The Plymouth Argyle Supporters Training and Development Trust; this body was specifically set up to:

Quote :

'To provide and assist in the provision of facilities for recreation and other leisure time occupation for the benefit of young persons under 18 and resident in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset and in particular to provide education and training in the skills and techniques of football so that due attention is given to the education and development of such young persons'.

knecht wrote:

Interesting post. Re the italicised section, do you not think that for a relatively short period this was an acceptable step if it salvaged the club from liquidation?

Had the club been owned and run by proven, transparently "genuine" owners then yes; but it clearly wasn't was it.

In order to embark on a journey of that sort, the Trust would first have need to acquire the club ~ and that in itself is a can of worms as there isn't a trust in the country that can confidently say that they have the inherent finance and fund raising capacity for such a project.

That is why Exeter City are to be commended and Torquay United's board ARE 100% comprised of individuals who are long standing and proven genuine supporters of the club.

I could name you two trusts who have been forced down the road of accepting outside investment and are now unable to repay those "benefactors" who in one case (Wycombe Wanderers) have exercised their right to claim a controlling share ownership and (Brentford) where it is actually happening at this very moment.............both Steve Hayes (at Wycombe) and Matthew Benham (at Brentford) bankrolled spending beyond their club's wildest capabilities of sustaining and have taken share capital as payment.
When white knights (or black ones for that matter) appear on the horizon you have to ascertain their actual motives and your club's long term prospects under their "ownership"

Better that Argyle had been liquidated then, and a supporter created "Phoenix" club formed than the mess you are now in I would suggest.

Freathy wrote:

I knew this was going to come back and haunt *****wallet eventually. Will he have his collar felt by D&C's fraud unit? Maybe not but if he was being less than honest with the Trustees in order to secure the loan (fans money!) to save his own investment then that is as morally reprehensible as it gets. This clown was completely out of his depth as a chairman of a Championship club but seemed desparate to cash in all the same. Selling Ollies team to fatten accounts to intice the japs, the world cup farce, and when it all inevitably went massively tits up he seemingly tried this little wheeze to try and get out of the shit. And are Ridsdales fingerprints on this too?

trust in stapes

Well bugger me backwards....I think (and I have re-read it twice) that I agree with every word of a Freathy post. There wasn't even a we're all doomed..Brent is the same as Stapes tag line.

Thanks Freathy, here's to 3 points tomorrow

merse wrote:

knecht wrote:

Interesting post. Re the italicised section, do you not think that for a relatively short period this was an acceptable step if it salvaged the club from liquidation?

Had the club been owned and run by proven, transparently "genuine" owners then yes; but it clearly wasn't was it.

In order to embark on a journey of that sort, the Trust would first have need to acquire the club ~ and that in itself is a can of worms as there isn't a trust in the country that can confidently say that they have the inherent finance and fund raising capacity for such a project.

That is why Exeter City are to be commended and Torquay United's board ARE 100% comprised of individuals who are long standing and proven genuine supporters of the club.

I could name you two trusts who have been forced down the road of accepting outside investment and are now unable to repay those "benefactors" who in one case (Wycombe Wanderes) have exercised their right to claim a controlling share ownership and (Brentford) where it is actually happening at this very moment.............both Steve Hayes (at Wycombe) and Matthew Benham (at Brentford) bankrolled spending beyond their club's wildest capabilities of sustaining and have taken share capital as payment.
When white knights (or black ones for that matter) appear on the horizon you have to ascertain their actual motives and your club's long term prospects under their "ownership"

Better that Argyle had been liquidated then, and a supporter created "Phoenix" club formed than the mess you are now in I would suggest.

That was my preference. Trouble is, even with that scenario, the local dough boys with more bravado than brains would have led the charge. So we were up the proverbial without much of a paddle either way.

Andy_Symons wrote:

Merse - In this case, it wasn't the Argyle Fans' Trust that was involved; it was another organisation - The Plymouth Argyle Supporters Training and Development Trust; this body was specifically set up to:

Quote :

'To provide and assist in the provision of facilities for recreation and other leisure time occupation for the benefit of young persons under 18 and resident in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset and in particular to provide education and training in the skills and techniques of football so that due attention is given to the education and development of such young persons'.

I'm fully aware of that so isn't that even more reason why they shouldn't have done what they did?

Reading the "raison d'etre" of PAST&DT do you think they would be amenable to joint projects with Exeter City and Torquay United too?

Thought not...........I'll get me coat!

merse wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

Merse - In this case, it wasn't the Argyle Fans' Trust that was involved; it was another organisation - The Plymouth Argyle Supporters Training and Development Trust; this body was specifically set up to:

Quote :

'To provide and assist in the provision of facilities for recreation and other leisure time occupation for the benefit of young persons under 18 and resident in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset and in particular to provide education and training in the skills and techniques of football so that due attention is given to the education and development of such young persons'.

I'm fully aware of that so isn't that even more reason why they shouldn't have done what they did?

Reading the "raison d'etre" of PAST&DT do you think they would be amenable to joint projects with Exeter City and Torquay United too?

Thought not...........I'll get me coat!

Prior to this debacle, I would have said it was well within the capabilities of the T&DT to work with other sporting bodies in Devon and Cornwall, as long as that work was within their charitable remit. Now, of course, the T&DT are having to stand in line with the rest of the creditors over the next 5 years. They've no money to speak of, and even if they did have, it's my assessment that the credibility of the current Board of Trustees is lower than a snake's ass. Which is why, as I've already said, there should be resignations happening. I suspect that, just like Stapes, the Trustees will hold onto what little power and influence they've got for as long as possible.

Andy_Symons wrote:

merse wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

Merse - In this case, it wasn't the Argyle Fans' Trust that was involved; it was another organisation - The Plymouth Argyle Supporters Training and Development Trust; this body was specifically set up to:

Quote :

'To provide and assist in the provision of facilities for recreation and other leisure time occupation for the benefit of young persons under 18 and resident in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset and in particular to provide education and training in the skills and techniques of football so that due attention is given to the education and development of such young persons'.

I'm fully aware of that so isn't that even more reason why they shouldn't have done what they did?

Reading the "raison d'etre" of PAST&DT do you think they would be amenable to joint projects with Exeter City and Torquay United too?

Thought not...........I'll get me coat!

Prior to this debacle, I would have said it was well within the capabilities of the T&DT to work with other sporting bodies in Devon and Cornwall, as long as that work was within their charitable remit. Now, of course, the T&DT are having to stand in line with the rest of the creditors over the next 5 years. They've no money to speak of, and even if they did have, it's my assessment that the credibility of the current Board of Trustees is lower than a snake's ass. Which is why, as I've already said, there should be resignations happening. I suspect that, just like Stapes, the Trustees will hold onto what little power and influence they've got for as long as possible.

It's so Argyle, so village ! When will things ever change ? Bloody Peter Jones should be leading the crusade to get more cosmopolitan people involved but he's saying nothing of worth.

Andy_Symons wrote:

Whilst our headline outrage may well be directed at Paul Stapleton, for his duplicity and putting self interest above the best interests of the club, we really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Trustees singularly failed in their duties, and as a result £340, 000 (ish) of money that was ultimately raised by ordinary supporters came within a whisker of being lost forever. Lazy, incompetent, and badly led, I would hope that on seeing this report, the Officers of the T&DT would offer their resignations, and Ken Jones should follow suit, assuming he is not one of the Officers.

Agree totally.

They didn't even talk to their own consultative group (or whatever that group of advisers was called) before meekly handing over the money.

Cerbs: While a lot of that money did indeed come from the sale of the hostel, don't let's forget that it was supporters' money which bought and maintained the hostel in the first place.

As somebody who did her bit (not as much as some, granted, but quite a lot) to raise this money, I was and still am extremely angry about the whole affair. As for the argument that the loan saved the club from liquidation, I'm far from being convinced: seems to me all it did was delay the by then inevitable administration.

Now to read the full report.

Peggy wrote:

Andy_Symons wrote:

Whilst our headline outrage may well be directed at Paul Stapleton, for his duplicity and putting self interest above the best interests of the club, we really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Trustees singularly failed in their duties, and as a result £340, 000 (ish) of money that was ultimately raised by ordinary supporters came within a whisker of being lost forever. Lazy, incompetent, and badly led, I would hope that on seeing this report, the Officers of the T&DT would offer their resignations, and Ken Jones should follow suit, assuming he is not one of the Officers.

Agree totally.

They didn't even talk to their own consultative group (or whatever that group of advisers was called) before meekly handing over the money.

Cerbs: While a lot of that money did indeed come from the sale of the hostel, don't let's forget that it was supporters' money which bought and maintained the hostel in the first place.

As somebody who did her bit (not as much as some, granted, but quite a lot) to raise this money, I was and still am extremely angry about the whole affair. As for the argument that the loan saved the club from liquidation, I'm far from being convinced: seems to me all it did was delay the by then inevitable administration.
Now to read the full report.

I'm not even sure it did that. By the time the loan was asked for and approved the club's debts were so out of control that the T&DT money was just using a sticking plaster to heal an amputation. My belief is this was the final act of a man desperate to retain his position within the club, and perhaps more importantly (to him and his wife anyway) the social standing that being in this position brought to them both. Putting their place in the Boardroom before both the club and the development Trust. Truly revolting.

Peggy wrote:

Now to read the full report.

Well here it is:

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I think you want to focus on this aspect of it too and ask yourselves are you happy about:

"The administrator had come to an agreement for the sale of PAFC to an entity called Green Pilgrim Ltd;
It was proposed that Green Pilgrim Ltd would be prepared to honour the debt that PAFC owed the charity but to do so the charity would need to relinquish its security against Home Park and turn the secured loan to PAFC into an unsecured loan to Green Pilgrim Ltd;[
Green Pilgrim Ltd would re-pay the £330,000 loan quarterly at an interest rate of 1.75%, over a period of five years;
If the trustees did not agree to this, there was a risk that Green Pilgrim Ltd would withdraw the offer and the administrators of PAFC would apply to the courts for an order under the insolvency regulations to sell Home Park as if it was not encumbered with the legal charges against the land title;
If the charity wanted to enforce its security in the stadium the trustees would need to challenge the administrator via the courts.
26. In considering whether to take action to enforce their security or to agree to transfer the loan arrangements from PAFC to Green Pilgrim Ltd the trustees considered the matter with their legal advisors. The investigation was aware that the trustees had placed themselves in a weak negotiating position by lending such substantial sums of its money to a financially insecure company- that subsequently entered administration- with little or no tangible security.

I STILL think there should be considerable disquiet over the methods of acquisition of James Brent.

Don't worry dear boy. Newell and Webb have looked him in the eyes.