Welcome Simon Hallett.

VillageGreen wrote:

If the poor run continues like it did last season and Argyle are still rooted to the foot of the table (or in the bottom four) come the end of the year, will the new set up sack Adams ?.

Now SH is top banana, and with considerable more financial clout than JB, I would think that's a distinct possibility.

The only thing that saved DA last season was our miraculous turn of fortune, starting with the Cambridge game, and the fact that JB just didn't have the funds to give DA the hoof. This season however!

P.O.I wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

If the poor run continues like it did last season and Argyle are still rooted to the foot of the table (or in the bottom four) come the end of the year, will the new set up sack Adams ?.

Now SH is top banana, and with considerable more financial clout than JB, I would think that's a distinct possibility.

The only thing that saved DA last season was our miraculous turn of fortune, starting with the Cambridge game, and the fact that JB just didn't have the funds to give DA the hoof. This season however!

It's gonna be an interesting four months.

VillageGreen wrote:

If the poor run continues like it did last season and Argyle are still rooted to the foot of the table (or in the bottom four) come the end of the year, will the new set up sack Adams ?.

I don't think they'll sack him and neither should they. DA is no doubt a very good manager and if the worst comes to the worst and we get relegated he will get us back up. He deserves a chance with a proper budget that allows him to compete with the likes of Luton for our better players.

All well and good Coxide, but Derek has been backing JB to the hilt re his budget maybe he's being diplomatic but he has expressed very little dissatisfaction about his budget in public to the master of austerity.

akagreengull wrote:

All well and good Coxide, but Derek has been backing JB to the hilt re his budget maybe he's being diplomatic but he has expressed very little dissatisfaction about his budget in public to the master of austerity.

He had a proper whinge about the budget last week again. The problem with complaining too much is Brent doesnt like any criticism at all

So back to the age-old question - just why is our budget so low. Some of the biggest crowds in the division, a massive area for sponsorship possibilities, an incredibly generous fanbase, groups like the new flag wavers, GTs, AFT, Senor Greens, 50/50 to name a few. And luck like Liverpool games, player sales. No surprise DA whinges.

Dingle wrote:

So back to the age-old question - just why is our budget so low.  Some of the biggest crowds in the division, a massive area for sponsorship possibilities, an incredibly generous fanbase, groups like  the new flag wavers, GTs, AFT, Senor Greens, 50/50 to name a few.  And luck like Liverpool games, player sales.  No surprise DA whinges.

Exactly Dingle, why does a club with ten thousand plus fans give the manager such a poor budget that only the desperate and the unemployed are signed? I dont blame Adams in the slightest for Argyle being shite thats soley down to Brent.

Agreed.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

If we take Holloway's departure as the high water mark in his last home game as manager we beat Norwich 3-0 in front of an 11k crowd to go 5th in the CCC if my memory serves well.

We won the next game, away at Sheff Utd, to go 4th and that was as good as it got.

Nope, taken from Wikipedia,


2002–03 Div 2 46 17 14 15 63 52 65 8th R3 R1 Football League Trophy R2 Marino Keith 12 8,980 —
2003–04 Div 2 ↑ 46 26 12 8 85 41 90 1st* R1 R1 Football League Trophy R2 David Friio 15 12,654 —
2004–05 Champ 46 14 11 21 52 64 53 17th R3 R1 — — Paul Wotton 13 16,419 [AK]
2005–06 Champ 46 13 17 16 39 46 56 14th R3 R2 — — Paul Wotton 9 13,776 —
2006–07 Champ 46 17 16 13 63 62 67 11th QF R1 — — Barry Hayles 14 13,011 —
2007–08 Champ 46 17 13 16 60 50 64 10th R4 R3 — — Sylvan Ebanks-Blake 13‡ 13,000 [AL]
2008–09 Champ 46 13 12 21 44 57 51 21st R3 R1 — — Paul Gallagher 13 11,533 —
2009–10 Champ ↓ 46 11 8 27 43 68 41 23rd R3 R1 — — Jamie Mackie 8 10,316 —

Best lge position was first year in CCC with average of 16k but our crowds fell steadily from then until we got relegated. Five thousand fans makes a huge difference. These floaters make a huge difference in maintaining a CCC team or not. They also only turn up if the team are winning.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

If we take Holloway's departure as the high water mark in his last home game as manager we beat Norwich 3-0 in front of an 11k crowd to go 5th in the CCC if my memory serves well.

We won the next game, away at Sheff Utd, to go 4th and that was as good as it got.

Nope, taken from Wikipedia,


2002–03 Div 2 46 17 14 15 63 52 65 8th R3 R1 Football League Trophy R2 Marino Keith 12 8,980 —
2003–04 Div 2 ↑ 46 26 12 8 85 41 90 1st* R1 R1 Football League Trophy R2 David Friio 15 12,654 —
2004–05 Champ 46 14 11 21 52 64 53 17th R3 R1 — — Paul Wotton 13 16,419 [AK]
2005–06 Champ 46 13 17 16 39 46 56 14th R3 R2 — — Paul Wotton 9 13,776 —
2006–07 Champ 46 17 16 13 63 62 67 11th QF R1 — — Barry Hayles 14 13,011 —
2007–08 Champ 46 17 13 16 60 50 64 10th R4 R3 — — Sylvan Ebanks-Blake 13‡ 13,000 [AL]
2008–09 Champ 46 13 12 21 44 57 51 21st R3 R1 — — Paul Gallagher 13 11,533 —
2009–10 Champ ↓ 46 11 8 27 43 68 41 23rd R3 R1 — — Jamie Mackie 8 10,316 —

Best lge position was first year in CCC with average of 16k but our crowds fell steadily from then until we got relegated. Five thousand fans makes a huge difference. These floaters make a huge difference in maintaining a CCC team or not. They also only turn up if the team are winning.

And if they can see that the shareholders have what it takes to invest on and off the pitch, giving the club a realistic chance of achieving PL football. Only then does the wider potential fanbase start to buy in, as they did at Reading, Swansea , Hull and now Brighton, Cardiff and Bristol City. All clubs with similar support and histories to PAFC.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

If we take Holloway's departure as the high water mark in his last home game as manager we beat Norwich 3-0 in front of an 11k crowd to go 5th in the CCC if my memory serves well.

We won the next game, away at Sheff Utd, to go 4th and that was as good as it got.

Nope, taken from Wikipedia,


2002–03 Div 2 46 17 14 15 63 52 65 8th R3 R1 Football League Trophy R2 Marino Keith 12 8,980 —
2003–04 Div 2 ↑ 46 26 12 8 85 41 90 1st* R1 R1 Football League Trophy R2 David Friio 15 12,654 —
2004–05 Champ 46 14 11 21 52 64 53 17th R3 R1 — — Paul Wotton 13 16,419 [AK]
2005–06 Champ 46 13 17 16 39 46 56 14th R3 R2 — — Paul Wotton 9 13,776 —
2006–07 Champ 46 17 16 13 63 62 67 11th QF R1 — — Barry Hayles 14 13,011 —
2007–08 Champ 46 17 13 16 60 50 64 10th R4 R3 — — Sylvan Ebanks-Blake 13‡ 13,000 [AL]
2008–09 Champ 46 13 12 21 44 57 51 21st R3 R1 — — Paul Gallagher 13 11,533 —
2009–10 Champ ↓ 46 11 8 27 43 68 41 23rd R3 R1 — — Jamie Mackie 8 10,316 —

Best lge position was first year in CCC with average of 16k but our crowds fell steadily from then until we got relegated. Five thousand fans makes a huge difference. These floaters make a huge difference in maintaining a CCC team or not. They also only turn up if the team are winning.

You misunderstand so I'll say it again.

Holloway's last game as manager was v Norwich at home. A game we won 3-0.

Greens on Screen tells me it was played 10th November 2007 and the team was Romain Larrieu, Paul Connolly, Krisztian Timar, Marcel Seip, Lee Hodges (Dan Gosling), Lee Martin, David Norris, Lilian Nalis (Nadjim Abdou), Peter Halmosi, Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Barry Hayles (Jermaine Easter) and the goalscorers were Lee Martin, Paul Connolly, David Norris.

The attendance was 11,222.

Holloway resigned 21st November 2007.

24th November 2011 we went to Bramall Lane and won 1-0 to go 4th in the division.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think you'll find everything I said to be entirely accurate in every respect.

Coxside_Green wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

If the poor run continues like it did last season and Argyle are still rooted to the foot of the table (or in the bottom four) come the end of the year, will the new set up sack Adams ?.

I don't think they'll sack him and neither should they.  DA is no doubt a very good manager and if the worst comes to the worst and we get relegated he will get us back up.  He deserves a chance with a proper budget that allows him to compete with the likes of Luton for our better players.

This

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I think you'll find everything I said to be entirely accurate in every respect.

True..  But the others were talking about the crowd size and its effect on the budget and therefore the team.

Not highest position attained.

The assertion was that if we had a decent team we'd get bigger crowds.

That team got us to the highest league position in my lifetime (I think - maybe Dave Smith's team beat it but I don't think so) and only 11,222 turned up to watch it play a team with top division pedigree.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The assertion was that if we had a decent team we'd get bigger crowds.

That team got us to the highest league position in my lifetime (I think - maybe Dave Smith's team beat it but I don't think so) and only 11,222 turned up to watch it play a team with top division pedigree.

No your assertion was that when we sold the players the crowds left, that isn't true we peaked at 16k odd when we got to the CCC and Holloway came a few years later and gave us the glory years, players left he left we were fooked but the fact is 5000 fans had given us up by then. We then chose a world cup and property speculation. So no you weren't factually correct.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The assertion was that if we had a decent team we'd get bigger crowds.

That team got us to the highest league position in my lifetime (I think - maybe Dave Smith's team beat it but I don't think so) and only 11,222 turned up to watch it play a team with top division pedigree.

No your assertion was that when we sold the players the crowds left, that isn't true we peaked at 16k odd when we got to the CCC and Holloway came a few years later and gave us the glory years, players left he left we were fooked but the fact is 5000 fans had given us up by then. We then chose a world cup and property speculation. So no you weren't factually correct.

That was not my assertion at all. It is your imagining. Obviously according to your entirely fictitious terms you are entirely correct but it is not what I said and not did I imply it and I did not assert it at all.

However once those players I named left (not all of them were sold and I did not say they all were) crowds plummeted rather than tailed off a bit.

But for all of that the fact remains that the team that took us to the highest league position in my lifetime, and possibly ever, only drew 11,222 fans for a home game at the very height of its powers.

Oh dear, if "playing budgets are dependant on crowd size", then Hallett's going to be a very unhappy bunny. He's following brent's convenient mantra of installing new feeding stations as his big attempt to increase his playing budget.
Any cursory glance at football finance will show that playing in the championship has the biggest influence on the playing budget by a country mile.  Second to that is boardroom attitude and "investing" in an effective manager when you happen across one. Pick your wave and ride it, with a weather eye to rip currents. Brent never even got in the water.. too busy dreaming of sandcastles for the next high tide to knock over.
Using the amazing 16000 as a statistical bench mark is not a good idea. It was a strange  one off and there were many varied underlying contributing energies. Pent up emotions of almost decades of the bad years, new stadium, rebirth, run by fans for fans originally etc etc. With the hopeless Williamson in a position not of his understanding, those attendances were never sustainable. An example of underlying energies rarely seen was the resignation of Michael Foot and his reasoning.

The jump from the third tier to the second tier is arguably the easiest to achieve, even for a small club, yet with by far the highest reward. The required considered adjustment in the boardroom is only a small one, but plainly one that brent was not prepared to make. He had a chance last January, a big swell was running, but he turned his back. Stick to your sandcastles Jim. Byeeee

I believe that Buszaky and Capaldi had already gone and there was talk of others like Norris, SEB wanting away. A director at the time messaged me on pisspotty at the height of my warnings of what was about to happen next if Stapes & co didn't move over, telling me that a month earlier, Holloway had asked Stapes to find the investment to back him for a promotion push. He found out on the day of the Norwich game that nothing had been done or even tried and the game was up.
He himself and his players were attracting interest from other clubs and would cash in before the bubble burst.

I maintain that some of the fanbase 'know' when things aren't right and that even the potential fanbase can tell if the owners have what it takes. That board definitely didn't and were more interested in property and hanging on. Hence the buying the stadium and then the Japs giving local directors cash for some of their shares
Meanwhile, Nool and his ilk would 'never hear a bad word about that man and his lovely family'. There was 'year on year progress', and we should all simply 'enjoy the ride'.

The Brent/Hallet axis haven't got what it takes either. They have via the wannabes, garnered more support up to a level but the same will happen again if we fluke a season or two in the championship, which is looking increasingly unlikely, by the fact we can't retain some ok players and are always playing catch up in the loan market.

When you look at previously similar clubs to ours with little success, the awakening came via serious investment in stadia and the ability to retain the best staff and add to them.Reading, Swansea, Hull, Brighton and now Cardiff and Bristol City all had these essentials and Bournemouth had the wealth to support a good manager in a tinpot stadium.

The potential fanbase isn't stupid and will know if something good is really happening at Home Park.

Tringreen wrote:

The potential fanbase isn't stupid and will know is something good is really happening at Home Park.

Exactly Tringy, we're singing from the same hymn sheet. It's a feel thing, an energy thing. It also the attracts the right players when it's right.. Hayles wouldn't have come near the place if it didn't have a buzz. So typical that we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, and possibly the biggest defeat in the history of the club.

Some thought provoking posts latterly with differing views of our near past - probably bits of all are about right. I don't think we realistically stood a chance of the prem during the Championship period but as stated I got on the bus and 'enjoyed the ride' - the first season up was refreshing, seeing capacity crowds against the likes of Leeds, Hammers & Forest(?) and some great away days. Hallett & co have got a big job on their hands juggling between the infrastructure and football financing - I'd like to be proved wrong but I doubt there is enough wonga to take us to the next level. I'm just tipping the 50 year ordeal and that old head says time to slow down maybe - these days it's all about 6hours of beer swilling train journeys, interrupted by an hour plus of butt numbing (can't even stand now appearently) pitch side entertainment.
As I said, prove me wrong mr Hallett.

Apart from the obvious wannabes and a few senior greens who should know better, I don't think Brent's attitude ever gave rise to hope of a new dawn. Even the promotion season didn't feel like it should. Strange thing allegiance and belief. You really can't tell people from your little bubble that  inflation is 2 per cent, GDP is at record levels, while rent  soars and wages drop through the floor. Football is no different. Brent rarely spent more than 4 hours a week with his Floozie PAFC. Who but the dim and conniving could take him seriously ?
Being surrounded by the likes of Newell, I wonder just how aware community Si is.

beesrus wrote:

Apart from the obvious wannabes and a few senior greens who should know better, I don't think Brent's attitude ever gave rise to hope of a new dawn. Even the promotion season didn't feel like it should. Strange thing allegiance and belief. You really can't tell people from your little bubble that  inflation is 2 per cent, GDP is at record levels, while rent  soars and wages drop through the floor. Football is no different. Brent rarely spent more than 4 hours a week with his Floozie PAFC. Who but the dim and conniving could take him seriously ?
Being surrounded by the likes of Newell, I wonder just how aware community Si is.

He knows don’t worry about that it’s weather he lets him slither up to him like Brent did that is the QUESTION??? Cos I can’t see the pig giving up his AAA Passes & car park space without a fight he will be licking arses ten to a dozen if he ain’t already

RegGreen wrote:

beesrus wrote:

Apart from the obvious wannabes and a few senior greens who should know better, I don't think Brent's attitude ever gave rise to hope of a new dawn. Even the promotion season didn't feel like it should. Strange thing allegiance and belief. You really can't tell people from your little bubble that  inflation is 2 per cent, GDP is at record levels, while rent  soars and wages drop through the floor. Football is no different. Brent rarely spent more than 4 hours a week with his Floozie PAFC. Who but the dim and conniving could take him seriously ?
Being surrounded by the likes of Newell, I wonder just how aware community Si is.

He knows don’t worry about that it’s weather he lets him slither up to him like Brent did that is the QUESTION??? Cos I can’t see the pig giving up his AAA Passes & car park space without a fight he will be licking arses ten to a dozen if he ain’t already

He is already rimming the stadium announcer to milk every bit of publicity for his crap website.
He obviously knows the right people at the club to give him the attention he craves.

I wonder when Hallet and Felwick take charge how much leverage will Newell have?

Punchdrunk wrote:

RegGreen wrote:

beesrus wrote:

Apart from the obvious wannabes and a few senior greens who should know better, I don't think Brent's attitude ever gave rise to hope of a new dawn. Even the promotion season didn't feel like it should. Strange thing allegiance and belief. You really can't tell people from your little bubble that  inflation is 2 per cent, GDP is at record levels, while rent  soars and wages drop through the floor. Football is no different. Brent rarely spent more than 4 hours a week with his Floozie PAFC. Who but the dim and conniving could take him seriously ?
Being surrounded by the likes of Newell, I wonder just how aware community Si is.

He knows don’t worry about that it’s weather he lets him slither up to him like Brent did that is the QUESTION??? Cos I can’t see the pig giving up his AAA Passes & car park space without a fight he will be licking arses ten to a dozen if he ain’t already

He is already rimming the stadium announcer to milk every bit of publicity for his crap website.
He obviously knows the right people at the club to give him the attention he craves.

I wonder when Hallet and Felwick take charge how much leverage will Newell have?

embrassing isnt it a guy has to get his tongue right up club officials arses in order to keep his shit forum relevant in the vain hope someone will one day say something good about him.

Punchdrunk wrote:

RegGreen wrote:

beesrus wrote:

Apart from the obvious wannabes and a few senior greens who should know better, I don't think Brent's attitude ever gave rise to hope of a new dawn. Even the promotion season didn't feel like it should. Strange thing allegiance and belief. You really can't tell people from your little bubble that  inflation is 2 per cent, GDP is at record levels, while rent  soars and wages drop through the floor. Football is no different. Brent rarely spent more than 4 hours a week with his Floozie PAFC. Who but the dim and conniving could take him seriously ?
Being surrounded by the likes of Newell, I wonder just how aware community Si is.

He knows don’t worry about that it’s weather he lets him slither up to him like Brent did that is the QUESTION??? Cos I can’t see the pig giving up his AAA Passes & car park space without a fight he will be licking arses ten to a dozen if he ain’t already

He is already rimming the stadium announcer to milk every bit of publicity for his crap website.
He obviously knows the right people at the club to give him the attention he craves.

I wonder when Hallet and Felwick take charge how much leverage will Newell have?

They both already ware PASOTI badges so I would imagine the fat cnut will have the run of HP under Hallett just as he does now