President's progress

Now that Tringreen is another argument entirely and one which I would not disagree when talking about Webb. I have said on another site what my opinion of Webb is. It is that he is very much unPresidential and is not the man to hold that post. He is a decent enough person when it come to a fight for the Argle cause but is not the man to hold office to negotiate the peace. I don't know the background between ATD and him even though there has been enough said on here. It was before I got here and I haven't read the majority of it and don't really want to. But, it has become clear that he holds this site to be some sort of threat and the equivellent of the Anti Christ. He clearly has an ego issue and loves the attention and acholades he gets on PASOTI but cannot stand criticism or questioning he gets on here. Brent should never have given him the honourary post no matter what he did for the cause or him in acquiring the club. His job should be to bring the fans together and encourage the population of this City in backing the club by attendance and support. He cannot do this due to lack of intellect or inability to communicate in any other than a bullying way. Bullies and loud mouths are great in a fight but become redundant in peacetime. So there you have my totally unbiased opinion of the man despite his valliant efforts previously for which all due credit should be given.

But having said the above I also don't see why every little thing he utters should be pulled apart for the sake of it. This suggestion probably didn't even come from him in the first place but he has picked it up in his roll of President and announced it under his name. That's about as far as his involvement will go and I still can't see any harm in it if 20 people decide hey have nothing better to do with their time and want to be seen as a Samaratan for the good of the club. As for Brent, he probably couldn't care less if the litter stays or goes in reality and would never have considered it being a job, let alone a paid one as long as all of our asses point downwards.

Greenjock wrote:

GOB wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

GOB wrote:

Fair comments SG.

Don't miss the next one, it's "Bring a Brush" week to paint the toilets and following that it's "Build a Business Lounge" week.

The business lounge is fine. The Far Post club for the average Joe Public is the one that needs sorting out.

There's nothing wrong with fans giving the club a hand to tidy the place up. During admin it's got in a bit of a mess. Whether it's picking litter or waving a paint brush around. Now is a chance for all those fans who want to help THEIR club to step up and help. It might be an idea to have a team of litter pickers who get free entry to games in return for an hours work. This has worked for years for volunteers who help the groundsman during halftime and at full time. I wouldn't agree with it putting others out of work but I don't think this is the case as so many staff left the club.

Now if the President had declared that then I would have said that the club were attempting to reach out into the community instead of just taking from it.

That's my take on it too. Offer free tickets to volunteers who give a few hours up on a Sunday to help clean up. As a lad I would have given up a Sunday to clear litter for an Argyle ticket,and a few mates of mine used to sell Argyle lottery tickets in exchange for a ticket and a pasty at home games. I'm sure that there are plenty of fans who no longer attend due to financial restraints and this would be a good chance to A, clean up in and around the ground, and B, fill a few more empty seats which would create more of an atmosphere than the Forze Verde crew.

This could be extended to helping out with painting and other odd jobs to improve the appearance of the ground, and then it wouldn't seem like such a attempt to "do people out of jobs". The free ticket scheme would seem more in keeping with the community club tag than a multi-millionaire owner getting essential maintenance carried out by volunteers.

Even better would be a free ticket and a fanfest ticket, so the volunteers could get a pasty and a drink included if money is really tight. If it's under 18's why not a couple of soft drinks?

If it really takes off, why not make a really big thing of it and promote the club further by helping out in other ares of Plymouth that look grubby, or helping out some of the businesses affected by us going into administration? Do something to raise awareness or help out the St John Ambulance maybe. Just an idea.

The whole Presidents Progress thing doesn't annoy me as such, I just find it a little too twee and full of nothing dressed up as something special, and sometimes if there's nothing much to say, don't say anything. Brent doesn't bother saying too much too often and seems to have given the Presidents role to Chris to be his public spokesman, which isn't really helping when Chris has got so many people's backs up lately.

Top post, Jock.

I know argyle offer a few apprenticeships, one being a football in the community thing, In my opinion i think its alot better than the ones the NHS do though, they just seem like a really cheap way of getting 17 year olds to do paper work. The Football in the community project gets them out coaching, earns them a bit of cash and gets them to do there badges i think

Maybe this is why Newell has started his auctions up again despite saying he was giving it all up in a dummy throwing tantrum not long back.

Brenty is now rubbing his hands with glee, free litter pickers plus Newelly baby auctioning anything he can get his grubby hands on to "accelerate the staff payments".

Brent doesn't have to pay a penny on two areas that need attention.....

Greenjock wrote:

If it really takes off, why not make a really big thing of it and promote the club further by helping out in other ares of Plymouth that look grubby, or helping out some of the businesses affected by us going into administration?

My take exactly ~ by getting this work done for nothing Brent really is taking the piss out of all the little firms and individuals disgracefully ripped off by the 0.77p in the £ scandal.

It all smacks of forelock tugging when the local hunt gather and of landowners dragging cap doffing inbreds along to the polling station to vote for a party that exists for the interests of those exploiting them ~ and Webb's a "Union Man"?

Just how many mugs can you continue to unearth in a so called city?

merse wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

If it really takes off, why not make a really big thing of it and promote the club further by helping out in other ares of Plymouth that look grubby, or helping out some of the businesses affected by us going into administration?

My take exactly ~ by getting this work done for nothing Brent really is taking the piss out of all the little firms and individuals disgracefully ripped off by the 0.77p in the £ scandal.

It all smacks of forelock tugging when the local hunt gather and of landowners dragging cap doffing inbreds along to the polling station to vote for a party that exists for the interests of those exploiting them ~ and Webb's a "Union Man"?

Just how many mugs can you continue to unearth in a so called city?

ALL HE HAS TO DO IS PROVIDE A FEW CAR PARKING SPACES AND ALLOW THE PROLES INTO THE INNER SANCTUM OCCASIONALLY. CLEVER FELLA.

CAN'T BE ARSED TO WRITE THIS AGAIN IN SMALL CASE AND SENSIBLE GREEN BLOKE, YOU ARE NOT AS DAFT AS I THOUGHT YOU WERE. A TAD PEDANTIC MAYBE BUT NOT AN AVIVA !

Richard Blight wrote:

GOB wrote:

Richard Blight wrote:

GOB wrote:

Fair comments SG.

Don't miss the next one, it's "Bring a Brush" week to paint the toilets and following that it's "Build a Business Lounge" week.

The business lounge is fine. The Far Post club for the average Joe Public is the one that needs sorting out.

There's nothing wrong with fans giving the club a hand to tidy the place up. During admin it's got in a bit of a mess. Whether it's picking litter or waving a paint brush around. Now is a chance for all those fans who want to help THEIR club to step up and help. It might be an idea to have a team of litter pickers who get free entry to games in return for an hours work. This has worked for years for volunteers who help the groundsman during halftime and at full time. I wouldn't agree with it putting others out of work but I don't think this is the case as so many staff left the club.

Now if the President had declared that then I would have said that the club were attempting to reach out into the community instead of just taking from it.

When I was a kid,if someone had said you can get in for nothing if you spend an hour picking up litter,I'ld have been there every game,instead of only when my pocket money stretched that far. Mind you back then,I wouldn't have had to attend a health and safety course on what personal protective equipment was needed and how to operate a litter picker.

Point taken Richard!

It's a good point actually, have they thought about that?

Sorry if this question sounds a bit thick but this is something else I haven't particularly taken much notice of previously. These accelerated payments that the auctions are raising money for. When the purchase or take over of the club was done, the staff signed an agreement to accept payments of backpay over 5 years. I know that bit and that there wasn't a lot of choice either. Brent still has an obligation to pay them their money due in full over that period whatever payments are made by others. Is that the fact of this or are you saying that any money these people get from elsewhere is considered part of what Brent committed himself or the club to pay?

I feel very sorry and grateful in equal measure to the staff who stood by the club I will state from the outset. These payments are helping them to pay off their debts incurred previously so it can't be a bad thing can it? In the end they will have received far more than they would have done if they had been paid so it is some compensation surely. I also incidentally think Brent should have funded the back wages in full at the start but he didn't. Not quite the man of the people he makes himself out to be but then again I have never quite seen him as the saint he was made out to be anyway. I don't think he is particularly a bad man and probably was the best offer on the table but saintly definately not. No successful business man is that and completely ethical.

Thank you Tringreen I feel almost warm inside now.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Sorry if this question sounds a bit thick but this is something else I haven't particularly taken much notice of previously. These accelerated payments that the auctions are raising money for. When the purchase or take over of the club was done, the staff signed an agreement to accept payments of backpay over 5 years. I know that bit and that there wasn't a lot of choice either. Brent still has an obligation to pay them their money due in full over that period whatever payments are made by others. Is that the fact of this or are you saying that any money these people get from elsewhere is considered part of what Brent committed himself or the club to pay?

I feel very sorry and grateful in equal measure to the staff who stood by the club I will state from the outset. These payments are helping them to pay off their debts incurred previously so it can't be a bad thing can it? In the end they will have received far more than they would have done if they had been paid so it is some compensation surely. I also incidentally think Brent should have funded the back wages in full at the start but he didn't. Not quite the man of the people he makes himself out to be but then again I have never quite seen him as the saint he was made out to be anyway. I don't think he is particularly a bad man and probably was the best offer on the table but saintly definately not. No successful business man is that and completely ethical.

Thank you Tringreen I feel almost warm inside now.

You're welcome. I don't think the money raised is additional, just paying off the owner's debt faster.

I also don't believe the club was ever properly marketed at the sort of price Brent probably got it for.Guilfoyle said as much I believe. A bloody Russian has bought into Bournemouth, who have nothing like the support potential of Argyle.They do have an airport though.

Two prospective buyers stated they couldn't get a look in, even Todd mentioned it .... One might have been forgiven in thinking it was a closed shop.
That's certainly how I saw the whole process and even James Brent to this day doesn't understand why the administrators kept it going so long. I thought it very reminiscent of an early half done deal, with the only detail needing sorting being how to delay the sale date in order to come to an acceptable purchase figure ........ enter Heaney.. his input added nearly 6 months of unpaid wages .... now that's what I call a good mate, considering all the stick he took. Water off a duck's back.

The money raised is not a "gain" for the staff but it will mean a considerable reduction that Brent eventually pays out. So in other words, the more the fans pay out the quicker the staff are paid and the more Brent will make.

PP is better at this bit then me but it's one of the fundamental reasons for our disgust and those involved never seem to want to mention it............he beat me to it!

The marketing is the fault of the Administrator and not Brent though which is why I say best offer on the table.

Sorry to be pedantic but you say you "think" it is part of their pay and not additional. Does anyone actually know what it is as I would be interested. I would hope it is additional.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

The marketing is the fault of the Administrator and not Brent though which is why I say best offer on the table.

Sorry to be pedantic but you say you "think" it is part of their pay and not additional. Does anyone actually know what it is as I would be interested. I would hope it is additional.

Already answered. I think they are correct.

Lots of interesting arguments on this thread.

I've said it before .... but I'll say it again .... I would like a society where each had according to their needs and gave according to their abilities. I would also like a society where we all loved one another. It ain't going to happen.

I spent at least three hours today doing voluntary work. I shall spend maybe 18 or more hours over the next three days doing voluntary work for three or four different organisations. All of them could be filled by someone being paid to do the job in a truly egalitarian society. But, if I didn't do them, either they wouldn't be done or an organisation I support would struggle with the limited funds it has. What should I do? Step back and let the jobs go undone? Let the organisations fold or struggle? I shall do my volunteering. I've given up banging my head against the wall in the belief that I can force others to change their behaviour. I am not going to man the barricades (though nowadays I might manage to provide cups of tea for those that do). In the meantime I will try to live my life according to as many of the principles I have that are realistically applicable. I will work hard, be nice to people and be the society I would like there to be.

In the meantime a group of people may choose to offer their time to the club they support. Good on them. I hope Mr Brent continues to be given information from this site. I hope the rich millionaire has a road to Damascus moment and chooses to spread at least some of his wealth more equitably. I hope he finds a few coppers down the back of his sofa to enable a couple of people to be employed - at least a couple of days a week - to do the sort of jobs longer term that will be done by the voluntary crew. How long do you think I should hold my breath?

Do you not put yourselves out for others? If you don't - that's a pity. If you do - is it any different to what these Argyle volunteers may be doing?

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Sorry if this question sounds a bit thick but this is something else I haven't particularly taken much notice of previously. These accelerated payments that the auctions are raising money for. When the purchase or take over of the club was done, the staff signed an agreement to accept payments of backpay over 5 years. I know that bit and that there wasn't a lot of choice either. Brent still has an obligation to pay them their money due in full over that period whatever payments are made by others. Is that the fact of this or are you saying that any money these people get from elsewhere is considered part of what Brent committed himself or the club to pay?

I feel very sorry and grateful in equal measure to the staff who stood by the club I will state from the outset. These payments are helping them to pay off their debts incurred previously so it can't be a bad thing can it? In the end they will have received far more than they would have done if they had been paid so it is some compensation surely. I also incidentally think Brent should have funded the back wages in full at the start but he didn't. Not quite the man of the people he makes himself out to be but then again I have never quite seen him as the saint he was made out to be anyway. I don't think he is particularly a bad man and probably was the best offer on the table but saintly definately not. No successful business man is that and completely ethical.

Thank you Tringreen I feel almost warm inside now.

Careful now, Sensible. There was a HUGE row when people tried to ask these questions before.

Eventually, I think we got an answer to the effect that the GTs give the money to the club, so it counts as unbudgeted income and can be used to accelerate the payments to the staff.

Sensible. A statement from the green taverners confirmed payments are being offset against the amount owing by the club to the employees.
I might be wrong, but I also believe a further statement somewhere says that our newly community enfranchised ex citibank man James Brent is keen to match this paying down of his debts with future 'community' projects. Now I don't know about you but years and years of being Millbanked by Blair's spin has left me not believing a word of this sort of talk. How many times can money be counted and appropriated against something.

Peggy wrote:

.......
Careful now, Sensible. There was a HUGE row when people tried to ask these questions before.

Eventually, I think we got an answer to the effect that the GTs give the money to the club, so it counts as unbudgeted income and can be used to accelerate the payments to the staff.

And I think there was some fudged comment from "someone in the know" that Brent would find some way of repaying the fund-raising. Was the offering of a permanent GT bar, or something similar, linked to that?

edited: sorry pp, you beat me to it. That was the sort of thing I was referring to.

knecht wrote:

Lots of interesting arguments on this thread.

I've said it before .... but I'll say it again .... I would like a society where each had according to their needs and gave according to their abilities. I would also like a society where we all loved one another. It ain't going to happen.

I spent at least three hours today doing voluntary work. I shall spend maybe 18 or more hours over the next three days doing voluntary work for three or four different organisations. All of them could be filled by someone being paid to do the job in a truly egalitarian society. But, if I didn't do them, either they wouldn't be done or an organisation I support would struggle with the limited funds it has. What should I do? Step back and let the jobs go undone? Let the organisations fold or struggle? I shall do my volunteering. I've given up banging my head against the wall in the belief that I can force others to change their behaviour. I am not going to man the barricades (though nowadays I might manage to provide cups of tea for those that do). In the meantime I will try to live my life according to as many of the principles I have that are realistically applicable. I will work hard, be nice to people and be the society I would like there to be.

In the meantime a group of people may choose to offer their time to the club they support. Good on them. I hope Mr Brent continues to be given information from this site. I hope the rich millionaire has a road to Damascus moment and chooses to spread at least some of his wealth more equitably. I hope he finds a few coppers down the back of his sofa to enable a couple of people to be employed - at least a couple of days a week - to do the sort of jobs longer term that will be done by the voluntary crew. How long do you think I should hold my breath?

Do you not put yourselves out for others? If you don't - that's a pity. If you do - is it any different to what these Argyle volunteers may be doing?

Why do you always have to be so wise and reasonable? Eh?

If it's a one-off, let's all muck in and clear the place up sort of thing, then I'm ok with it, too. Especially if it's accompanied by some measures to keep it clean, like putting bins around under the stands and finding a way of pointing out that if rubbish wasn't dropped it wouldn't have to be picked up.

But what happens next? Minimum wage is £6.08 per hour (less for under-21s), plus employers' NI etc., so it's not exactly going to break the bank to take on a couple of people to do this all the time. The GTs are sponsoring the clean up: how many hours' worth of wages would that amount to?

Oh it's all in there somewhere Knecht.
But fudged ? wash your mouth out ... we have it on James's personal authority that he won't be fudging anything .... well at least he won't be fudging the financial input into the football team ... the Football league are watching.

I think you're missing the point knecht, at least as far as I am concerned.

I have also spent the past few hours doing work voluntarily whilst flirting with ATD. The difference between what I am doing and what is being asked of Argyle fans is that the organisation that I am working for is a charitable organisation with no cash, where as PAFC is a business owned by a very wealthy man.

The only criticism that I would throw at those that wish to undertake work at HP is that I think they are daft, but if they wish to do such things then good luck to them. The only point I wish to make is a point to bring those concerned awareness of the situation, topics like this do that.

Well I'm disappointed then and I'm glad I only ever threw my paper in the buckets when they were collecting for the staff before the takeover. At least that didn't count as their wages. I know the tax laws are an ass when it comes to charitable donations and always wants a cut but I'm sure they could have kept the cash and done something other than giving it as money to the staff. Perhaps an amount of family food to save them having to buy it themselves and releasing income for other debt payments to get rid of it quicker. I'm sure there would have been a way around it somewhere. I suspect there are a few people who won't let Mr Brent forget his promises in the future.

I should have added that I popped over to PASOTI just to have a look at what they are saying regarding this cleaning issue. Lo and behold there was a post from my son who agrees with the majority on here. Bloody kids, dragged up some of them. I should have beaten him more often.

Maybe Damon will pop in and confirm a few things?

I liked what happened at Charlton Athletic an how the fans pitched in at the Valley.
But that was a one off. Given Brent's well trailed 'community' aspirations, I have a sneaking suspicion he has a more permanent role in mind for his Brent Youth. Don't forget, they're buying big flags to give the yoof something to hang on to as they troop down to the dole office for the next ten years, sit down, and wait for their free labour to be apportioned to some privatre wealthy business owner. It's going to happen .... it is happening.
That's my lot on this thread ... it's become something akin to that opinion forum over the road that I gave up posting on years ago.... no point.

GOB wrote:

I think you're missing the point knecht, at least as far as I am concerned.

I have also spent the past few hours doing work voluntarily whilst flirting with ATD. The difference between what I am doing and what is being asked of Argyle fans is that the organisation that I am working for is a charitable organisation with no cash, where as PAFC is a business owned by a very wealthy man.

The only criticism that I would throw at those that wish to undertake work at HP is that I think they are daft, but if they wish to do such things then good luck to them. The only point I wish to make is a point to bring those concerned awareness of the situation, topics like this do that.

Yes, I don't disagree with you about the distinction between working for a charity/non-profit organisation and working for a business - hence my appeal to Brent to take the road to Damascus. I don't think the Argyle volunteers are mad - it's an extension of their hobby.

So you're flirting with us! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I don't know what to say.....

ive had a quick scan of this post so forgive me if someone has already said this. in my experience the people who would volunteer for this kind of malarky would have been paying customers previously, not newcomers, so in effect, a scheme such as proposed would rob the club of finance, rather than save some.