Plymouth v Luton FC Match Day Thread

charleymouse wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Bottom of the league after day one.

Early doors yet, 10-15 games in is time to judge this team, and for that matter, Adams.

Every season you will get one or two sides running away in League Two early doors. Last season it was Argyle, with the likes of Northampton and Oxford following on. This  season it will be someone else.

I would rather see Argyle take their time and gradually ease their way into the top three, rather than barnstorm and fall away as seen last term.

So if you had a choice between Argyle getting, say, 22 points or 15 points from the first 10 games, you would actually prefer them to only get 15? You would choose that scenario rather than being up at the top like last year? That's a novel approach.

Yes 10-15 games to judge the side, but that could have been avoided by giving key players contracts of more than 1 year.

If Argyle can do what  Bristol Rovers did and graft their way into third spot, that would show what this new side are capable of.

I agree about players being given a longer contract, rather than one year. A longer contract offers stability to the player and club.

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Bottom of the league after day one.

Early doors yet, 10-15 games in is time to judge this team, and for that matter, Adams.

Every season you will get one or two sides running away in League Two early doors. Last season it was Argyle, with the likes of Northampton and Oxford following on. This  season it will be someone else.

I would rather see Argyle take their time and gradually ease their way into the top three, rather than barnstorm and fall away as seen last term.

Certainly admire your optimism.I would say that if the proposed 10-15 games do indicate a season of struggle,then questions that delve deeper than management level must surely be asked.

The team for this season is a side that has Adams written all over it, much more so than last season. The pressure will build should Argyle be struggling after 10 or 15 have been played and that is understandable.

Give it 5 games and it will be intensified.......

We were really quite poor and Luton weren't a whole bunch better.

I thought Ijaha was our best player. He put himself about and was a real menace to Luton. He even used the ball quite well. His problem is that he's something of a unit and doesn't seem able to last more than an hour. If he could shed a stone and last 90 minutes we might have a cult hero on our hands here.

Matey Boy at RB looked OK too.

We looked completely toothless up front though. It wasn't until Slew came on that anybody even tried to run at an opponent.

0-3 might have flattered Luton a bit but there's little doubt that they deserved their win which was earned almost single-handed by Hylton who was a real bloody pest.

And I don't know what they've done to Christian Walton but he seemed a good 6" taller and far, far more assured than the bag of nerves he was when we had him last season.

Catering policy is now a complete farce. I queued up for all of half time to get a beer, got to the counter and they wouldn't serve anything alcoholic because "the match is about to restart" which it hadn't by the time I left the servery in disgust and went back to my seat. Actually we're well beyond farce on this one. It was truly ridiculous.

The first half was even, but second was a nightmare- Luton scored with 3 breaks. The difference between the sides were the forwards. Luton obviously spent a bit to secure the services of Hylton (who turned down a contract at Oxford to join them), whereas we had Frank Spencer up front (he was ok for first 20 minutes, but looks woeful in front of goal). Goodwillie had few decent touches but wasn't involved enough.

Adams' tactics were poor though- a diamond formation with two slow FB's? We had loads of possession in the first half but created nothing. I don't rate Miller the RB, and think he looked worse than Mellor.

What was probably the most disappointing aspect was we had a lot of set pieces but all were pretty dreadful- its been remarked how big and physical the side is now, but we showed absolutely no threat from set plays (apart from one Carey 30 yarder that went just wide).

We need a decent striker- break the bank FFS- maybe Lavery (who i think is still free but would cost compo) and some wingers- Slew could be useful out wide but can he cross?

Chemical Ali wrote:

The first half was even, but second was a nightmare- Luton scored with 3 breaks. The difference between the sides were the forwards. Luton obviously spent a bit to secure the services of Hylton (who turned down a contract at Oxford to join them), whereas we had Frank Spencer up front (he was ok for first 20 minutes, but looks woeful in front of goal). Goodwillie had few decent touches but wasn't involved enough.

Adams' tactics were poor though- a diamond formation with two slow FB's? We had loads of possession in the first half but created nothing. I don't rate Miller the RB, and think he looked worse than Mellor.

What was probably the most disappointing aspect was we had a lot of set pieces but all were pretty dreadful- its been remarked how big and physical the side is now, but we showed absolutely no threat from set plays (apart from one Carey 30 yarder that went just wide).

We need a decent striker- break the bank FFS- maybe Lavery (who i think is still free but would cost compo) and some wingers- Slew could be useful out wide but can he cross?

slew is another jervis except he scores once in a full green moon where Jervis once in a blue one.

Chemical Ali wrote:

The first half was even, but second was a nightmare- Luton scored with 3 breaks. The difference between the sides were the forwards. Luton obviously spent a bit to secure the services of Hylton (who turned down a contract at Oxford to join them), whereas we had Frank Spencer up front (he was ok for first 20 minutes, but looks woeful in front of goal). Goodwillie had few decent touches but wasn't involved enough.

Adams' tactics were poor though- a diamond formation with two slow FB's? We had loads of possession in the first half but created nothing. I don't rate Miller the RB, and think he looked worse than Mellor.

What was probably the most disappointing aspect was we had a lot of set pieces but all were pretty dreadful- its been remarked how big and physical the side is now, but we showed absolutely no threat from set plays (apart from one Carey 30 yarder that went just wide).

We need a decent striker- break the bank FFS- maybe Lavery (who i think is still free but would cost compo) and some wingers- Slew could be useful out wide but can he cross?

Just about sums it up for me. We barely tested Walton and on that performance we won't be flirting with promotion.

Freathy wrote:

We haven't got a chance

Argo 0-2 Luton

You know things have come to a pretty pass when Freathy's prediction turns out to be over optimistic!

VillageGreen wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Bottom of the league after day one.

Early doors yet, 10-15 games in is time to judge this team, and for that matter, Adams.

Every season you will get one or two sides running away in League Two early doors. Last season it was Argyle, with the likes of Northampton and Oxford following on. This  season it will be someone else.

I would rather see Argyle take their time and gradually ease their way into the top three, rather than barnstorm and fall away as seen last term.

Certainly admire your optimism.I would say that if the proposed 10-15 games do indicate a season of struggle,then questions that delve deeper than management level must surely be asked.

The team for this season is a side that has Adams written all over it, much more so than last season.  The pressure will build should Argyle be struggling after 10 or 15 have been played and that is understandable.

It may be understandable but that doesn't get to the root of Argyle's problems.Signing 15 new players isn't the real issue,it's the quality of those players that matters.Just about every signing made this summer has had some question mark against them-bad injury/appearance record,not playing in teams that finished below Argyle last year,not played a pro game for 2 years etc and that indicates to me that the club is not exactly pushing the boat out when it comes to attracting people of the required standard.For sure you could say that Adams could have spread the money and spent his budget on fewer but better players but that would be an identikit of the past few seasons and without the loan system coming to the rescue to the same degree.With gates of 9000,Argyle should not just be looking to build a team to get out of this division but also to prosper in the one beyond and there are precious few signs of that happening.Reminds me of when Argyle have struggled to compete in the championship in years gone by,only this time two divisions lower.Very depressing and you can ask all the questions you want about Adams but the fact is that both him and the previous manager had good records of obtaining promotion and results at other clubs,hence the need for deeper questions to be asked.In other words,the bigger picture.

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Bottom of the league after day one.

Early doors yet, 10-15 games in is time to judge this team, and for that matter, Adams.

Every season you will get one or two sides running away in League Two early doors. Last season it was Argyle, with the likes of Northampton and Oxford following on. This  season it will be someone else.

I would rather see Argyle take their time and gradually ease their way into the top three, rather than barnstorm and fall away as seen last term.

Certainly admire your optimism.I would say that if the proposed 10-15 games do indicate a season of struggle,then questions that delve deeper than management level must surely be asked.

The team for this season is a side that has Adams written all over it, much more so than last season.  The pressure will build should Argyle be struggling after 10 or 15 have been played and that is understandable.

It may be understandable but that doesn't get to the root of Argyle's problems.Signing 15 new players isn't the real issue,it's the quality of those players that matters.Just about every signing made this summer has had some question mark against them-bad injury/appearance record,not playing in teams that finished below Argyle last year,not played a pro game for 2 years etc and that indicates to me that the club is not exactly pushing the boat out when it comes to attracting people of the required standard.For sure you could say that Adams could have spread the money and spent his budget on fewer but better players but that would be an identikit of the past few seasons and without the loan system coming to the rescue to the same degree.With gates of 9000,Argyle should not just be looking to build a team to get out of this division but also to prosper in the one beyond and there are precious few signs of that happening.Reminds me of when Argyle have struggled to compete in the championship in years gone by,only this time two divisions lower.Very depressing and you can ask all the questions you want about Adams but the fact is that both him and the previous manager had good records of obtaining promotion and results at other clubs,hence the need for deeper questions to be asked.In other words,the bigger picture.

I've seen the bigger picture. It ain't pretty and reveals devious, self interest from gentry and jamboys alike. No class. No style . No hope.

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

VillageGreen wrote:

Bottom of the league after day one.

Early doors yet, 10-15 games in is time to judge this team, and for that matter, Adams.

Every season you will get one or two sides running away in League Two early doors. Last season it was Argyle, with the likes of Northampton and Oxford following on. This  season it will be someone else.

I would rather see Argyle take their time and gradually ease their way into the top three, rather than barnstorm and fall away as seen last term.

Certainly admire your optimism.I would say that if the proposed 10-15 games do indicate a season of struggle,then questions that delve deeper than management level must surely be asked.

The team for this season is a side that has Adams written all over it, much more so than last season.  The pressure will build should Argyle be struggling after 10 or 15 have been played and that is understandable.

It may be understandable but that doesn't get to the root of Argyle's problems.Signing 15 new players isn't the real issue,it's the quality of those players that matters.Just about every signing made this summer has had some question mark against them-bad injury/appearance record,not playing in teams that finished below Argyle last year,not played a pro game for 2 years etc and that indicates to me that the club is not exactly pushing the boat out when it comes to attracting people of the required standard.For sure you could say that Adams could have spread the money and spent his budget on fewer but better players but that would be an identikit of the past few seasons and without the loan system coming to the rescue to the same degree.With gates of 9000,Argyle should not just be looking to build a team to get out of this division but also to prosper in the one beyond and there are precious few signs of that happening.Reminds me of when Argyle have struggled to compete in the championship in years gone by,only this time two divisions lower.Very depressing and you can ask all the questions you want about Adams but the fact is that both him and the previous manager had good records of obtaining promotion and results at other clubs,hence the need for deeper questions to be asked.In other words,the bigger picture.

Yes, why are PAFC having a half arsed attempt to League 2 promotion on healthy crowds for this level, hasn't the debts largely been cleared now?
Without hefty interest/loan debt repayments there's no excuse for floundering in this league for so long.
Dan Mac666 for all his faults at least made sure Warnock has the resources to do his job

One year player contracts, a lick of paint for the grandstand every now n then, Home Park left unkempt - it seems only ambition for PAFC atm is to just 'exist'.
Minimal ambition & cost base, clear the debt and acquire the stadium ownership then CASH IN! Bet Starnes is delighted he jumped aboard, that share capital will go up in value a fair bit..

West country capitalism - transferring money from 'Janners' to Ex Bankers........

Pafcintheplace wrote:

Yes, why are PAFC having a half arsed attempt to League 2 promotion on healthy crowds for this level, hasn't the debts largely been cleared now?
Without hefty interest/loan debt repayments there's no excuse for floundering in this league for so long.
Dan Mac666 for all his faults at least made sure Warnock has the resources to do his job

One year player contracts, a lick of paint for the grandstand every now n then, Home Park left unkempt - it seems only ambition for PAFC atm is to just 'exist'.
Minimal ambition & cost base, clear the debt and acquire the stadium ownership then CASH IN! Bet Starnes is delighted he jumped aboard, that share capital will go up in value a fair bit..

It's looking increasingly certain that Brent doesn't really want Argyle to get promoted. As you point out, crowds are healthy with Argyle in the upper reaches of L2. Would a lower/mid-table PAFC in L1 attract a significantly higher crowd? Not really. But if the side was in L1 it would certainly cost more and eat into PAFC's (or Brent's) margins. So from that point of view, i.e. looking at the bottom line, the only that counts for Brent (not a criticism, an objective FACT), Argyle may as well stay in L2.

If Argyle were challenging for promotion from L1, then you would see a good rise in attendances. But to get there, you would need to recruit proven quality players and pay the wages which go with that sort of player, rather than taking a bunch of chances on non-League/injury prone (etc...) players. And there is no absolute guarantee that paying out bigger wages to attract genuine quality would lead to success and significantly higher crowds. So again, from Brent's point of view, why take the risk?

I reckon Brent has got this club right where he wants it; relatively big crowds, low wage bill, supine local media, a bunch of goons to stop the proles from revolting (hello Nool!), a city unambitious enough to be happy enough just to have a club. Why the hell would he want that to change? Why would he take the risk of ending up having to improve facilities if Argyle got into the Championship? Or pay out to put together a really strong side when 7-8000 will turn up every weekend virtually regardless.

Under Brent, the club may get into L1, but will never get above mid-table there. And if ground purchase goes ahead, then the shit will hit the fan and Brent will squeeze every last penny out of Argyle's corpse.

charleymouse wrote:

Pafcintheplace wrote:

Yes, why are PAFC having a half arsed attempt to League 2 promotion on healthy crowds for this level, hasn't the debts largely been cleared now?
Without hefty interest/loan debt repayments there's no excuse for floundering in this league for so long.
Dan Mac666 for all his faults at least made sure Warnock has the resources to do his job

One year player contracts, a lick of paint for the grandstand every now n then, Home Park left unkempt - it seems only ambition for PAFC atm is to just 'exist'.
Minimal ambition & cost base, clear the debt and acquire the stadium ownership then CASH IN! Bet Starnes is delighted he jumped aboard, that share capital will go up in value a fair bit..

It's looking increasingly certain that Brent doesn't really want Argyle to get promoted. As you point out, crowds are healthy with Argyle in the upper reaches of L2. Would a lower/mid-table PAFC in L1 attract a significantly higher crowd? Not really. But if the side was in L1 it would certainly cost more and eat into PAFC's (or Brent's) margins. So from that point of view, i.e. looking at the bottom line, the only that counts for Brent (not a criticism, an objective FACT), Argyle may as well stay in L2.

If Argyle were challenging for promotion from L1, then you would see a good rise in attendances. But to get there, you would need to recruit proven quality players and pay the wages which go with that sort of player, rather than taking a bunch of chances on non-League/injury prone (etc...) players. And there is no absolute guarantee that paying out bigger wages to attract genuine quality would lead to success and significantly higher crowds. So again, from Brent's point of view, why take the risk?

I reckon Brent has got this club right where he wants it; relatively big crowds, low wage bill, supine local media, a bunch of goons to stop the proles from revolting (hello Nool!), a city unambitious enough to be happy enough just to have a club. Why the hell would he want that to change? Why would he take the risk of ending up having to improve facilities if Argyle got into the Championship? Or pay out to put together a really strong side when 7-8000 will turn up every weekend virtually regardless.

Under Brent, the club may get into L1, but will never get above mid-table there. And if ground purchase goes ahead, then the shit will hit the fan and Brent will squeeze every last penny out of Argyle's corpse.

Sadly, an excellent appraisal. He has his 'bought' cheerleaders. Even they must now be shifting uncomfortably in their DB seats, wth the realisation that last season is as good as it gets. I see the poor, loyal saps at Reading were left looking through a window as the players disembarked privately from the team coach, so they couldn't get yet another photoshoot with them. Welcome to the big time you sad, little people.Even JL has joined the GOS throng through his new found internet exposure. How long before he is made an offer he can't refuse to make free chat, a little less 'free'.............