Notts County Match Thread.

I was in Club Electric Blue at just before midnight when the result came through and delighted. Performance didnt matter 3 points was what it was all about

Angry wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

At least the signs and murals protect the stands a bit from the rust and decay.

you clearly havent seen the state of the devonport end. the end of it from block one it literally covered in mould, gangreen and rust. i took a picture of it but i cant seem to be able to upload it.

So am I?

Lord Biro wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

However, could the relatively stunted gates be something to do with the fact that people just aren't that excited about a promotion challenge in Division 4 - i.e years of underachievement, not simply because of the present owner? This season has also been built on amazing away form, so the home performances haven't been as good. Perhaps people are just skint.

That's pretty fair comment Innocent.
Division 4, poor home performances for 5 years on the bounce, and of course, it's too expensive and awkward to get tickets without a CRB and credit check, two guarantors, and a good behaviour pass from Pasoti.

More a ghetto than ever it would appear, and that will have tuppence  to do with the culture of the club and it's accessibility. Probably not Brent, as he only spends half a day a week on the club, most of which is watching the game.

Spin, spin, sugar. Alastair Campbell would be proud of you, my Lord.

Whilst I totally concede that Brent has done very little to inject pizzazz into the place, the malaise goes much further back than that and for many different reasons.

The sound of one drum being beaten gets a bit wearing after a while, irrespective of the abilities of the player.

AstiSpumante wrote:

Pretty average fayre today but 3 in the bag was crucial. The atmosphere was flat and it doesn't really feel like a promotion season yet, I'm sure it'll improve if we stay in the hunt and I'm expecting it to ramp up next Saturday with 10k(hopefully) in attendance. While I don't blame Brent for everything he certainly doesn't inspire confidence and going forward into league 1 under similar budget restrictions is going to be painful to watch.

Thank Christ, a balanced view at last.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

However, could the relatively stunted gates be something to do with the fact that people just aren't that excited about a promotion challenge in Division 4 - i.e years of underachievement, not simply because of the present owner? This season has also been built on amazing away form, so the home performances haven't been as good. Perhaps people are just skint.

That's pretty fair comment Innocent.
Division 4, poor home performances for 5 years on the bounce, and of course, it's too expensive and awkward to get tickets without a CRB and credit check, two guarantors, and a good behaviour pass from Pasoti.

More a ghetto than ever it would appear, and that will have tuppence  to do with the culture of the club and it's accessibility. Probably not Brent, as he only spends half a day a week on the club, most of which is watching the game.

Spin, spin, sugar. Alastair Campbell would be proud of you, my Lord.

Whilst I totally concede that Brent has done very little to inject pizzazz into the place, the malaise goes much further back than that and for many different reasons.

The sound of one drum being beaten gets a bit wearing after a while, irrespective of the abilities of the player.

Of course it goes back further. In my humble opinion it all started when Foot left the boardroom, and property became the main target. On the pitch it showed itself when the outstanding gentleman Jonah Fletcher came here permanently after his loan spell.

And after all the shenanigans, all the Ridsdale bull, while you might not like it, property speculation is still the number one priority, and that IS where Brent comes in. He's doing the same old incompetent "imminent" thing as Stapleton. Instead of having discussions with the NFU, he's talking of money coming out of London. And none of it is intended for the benefit of the football, or the club, unless players are in need of emergency dental treatment while taking a corner. Sheeeeesh.

Many fans just don't like the whole property smell, it doesn't sit easy with innocent Saturdays and half decent football. The place wreaks of it, and again, many fans are now sadly used to being manipulated, so stay away. Identity is hard won, easily lost.
If that's banging the same drum, then it's because it's the same old story. The sooner the latest speculator hops on a bus, the sooner the park can go back to normal. If the spirit of the covenants are to be respected, any ground improvements should be between the council and the club, with no property interested goon in the middle. Shorely the NHS experience has shown the Thatcher/Blairite PPFI culture to be a disaster. It's not the way to go with Home Park. Without his bunce, Brent will just squat for ever. He needs a Dan moment, and soon.

Angry wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

At least the signs and murals protect the stands a bit from the rust and decay.

you clearly havent seen the state of the devonport end. the end of it from block one it literally covered in mould, gangreen and rust. i took a picture of it but i cant seem to be able to upload it.

Argyle sepsis, Argyle sepsis, whooaaaa!

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

Pretty average fayre today but 3 in the bag was crucial. The atmosphere was flat and it doesn't really feel like a promotion season yet, I'm sure it'll improve if we stay in the hunt and I'm expecting it to ramp up next Saturday with 10k(hopefully) in attendance. While I don't blame Brent for everything he certainly doesn't inspire confidence and going forward into league 1 under similar budget restrictions is going to be painful to watch.

Thank Christ, a balanced view at last.

No it's just another view, more in keeping with your own but just another view non the less. It would seem we need another couple of forums, one way out left, hating Brent and all that follow him (RIP ATD) another way more bum licking than pasoti and one for you Inno where everybody doesn't really like Brent but can't help but support him, three little bears?

Amsterdamage wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

AstiSpumante wrote:

Pretty average fayre today but 3 in the bag was crucial. The atmosphere was flat and it doesn't really feel like a promotion season yet, I'm sure it'll improve if we stay in the hunt and I'm expecting it to ramp up next Saturday with 10k(hopefully) in attendance. While I don't blame Brent for everything he certainly doesn't inspire confidence and going forward into league 1 under similar budget restrictions is going to be painful to watch.

Thank Christ, a balanced view at last.

No it's just another view, more in keeping with your own but just another view non the less. It would seem we need another couple of forums, one way out left, hating Brent and all that follow him (RIP ATD) another way more bum licking than pasoti and one for you Inno where everybody doesn't really like Brent but can't help but support him, three little bears?

I get what you're saying, Mr Damage but I prefer 'tolerate' Brent, rather than support him. I believe I've been consistent in saying that I do not think he is the right person to take the club forward but I also accept we're stuck with him for now. In the meantime, I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I'm enjoying seeing Argyle in a promotion battle again.

I actually think the best way for the club to be rid of him (and his cronies) in the medium-long term is for promotion to come as soon as possible. It might stick in the craw for some that the current Pasoti crowd lap it up and claim it as their own but it also might bring Brent selling up and going sooner.

Lord Biro wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

However, could the relatively stunted gates be something to do with the fact that people just aren't that excited about a promotion challenge in Division 4 - i.e years of underachievement, not simply because of the present owner? This season has also been built on amazing away form, so the home performances haven't been as good. Perhaps people are just skint.

That's pretty fair comment Innocent.
Division 4, poor home performances for 5 years on the bounce, and of course, it's too expensive and awkward to get tickets without a CRB and credit check, two guarantors, and a good behaviour pass from Pasoti.

More a ghetto than ever it would appear, and that will have tuppence  to do with the culture of the club and it's accessibility. Probably not Brent, as he only spends half a day a week on the club, most of which is watching the game.

Spin, spin, sugar. Alastair Campbell would be proud of you, my Lord.

Whilst I totally concede that Brent has done very little to inject pizzazz into the place, the malaise goes much further back than that and for many different reasons.

The sound of one drum being beaten gets a bit wearing after a while, irrespective of the abilities of the player.

Of course it goes back further. In my humble opinion it all started when Foot left the boardroom, and property became the main target. On the pitch it showed itself when the outstanding gentleman Jonah Fletcher came here permanently after his loan spell.

And after all the shenanigans, all the Ridsdale bull, while you might not like it, property speculation is still the number one priority, and that IS where Brent comes in. He's doing the same old incompetent "imminent" thing as Stapleton. Instead of having discussions with the NFU, he's talking of money coming out of London. And none of it is intended for the benefit of the football, or the club, unless players are in need of emergency dental treatment while taking a corner. Sheeeeesh.

Many fans just don't like the whole property smell, it doesn't sit easy with innocent Saturdays and half decent football. The place wreaks of it, and again, many fans are now sadly used to being manipulated, so stay away. Identity is hard won, easily lost.
If that's banging the same drum, then it's because it's the same old story. The sooner the latest speculator hops on a bus, the sooner the park can go back to normal. If the spirit of the covenants are to be respected, any ground improvements should be between the council and the club, with no property interested goon in the middle. Shorely the NHS experience has shown the Thatcher/Blairite PPFI culture to be a disaster. It's not the way to go with Home Park. Without his bunce, Brent will just squat for ever. He needs a Dan moment, and soon.

I don't disagree with any of that

I'd be delighted with a promotion but I along with a load of old fans that I know says it doesn't feel like a promo season, it's a wierd one alright and I think Biro has nailed most of the reasons for it. Much as I hate Brent I'd hate to see us drop out of the football league even if it "taught Brent a lesson" chairmen come and go although for Brent I think his going is well overdue. I supported the club all through the Mac666 years, I was one of the 2500 at one time and we had a lot more of a feeling of all in it together, I blame the club President and the divisive official forum owner for that though and they won't be forgotten, ever.

Amsterdamage wrote:

I'd be delighted with a promotion but I along with a load of old fans that I know says it doesn't feel like a promo season, it's a wierd one alright and I think Biro has nailed most of the reasons for it. Much as I hate Brent I'd hate to see us drop out of the football league even if it "taught Brent a lesson" chairmen come and go although for Brent I think his going is well overdue. I supported the club all through the Mac666 years, I was one of the 2500 at one time and we had a lot more of a feeling of all in it together, I blame the club President and the divisive official forum owner for that though and they won't be forgotten, ever.

I get the feeling that it does not feel like a promotion season also. However, I still believe that Argyle will go up in either second or third place. Home Park is sure to liven up as the home games get lesser and promotion looks a dead cert.

The conspiracy theorist in me has suggested a few times that Brent would rather have a trip to Wembley and rake in the takings that that would bring. He would probably prefer it that way.

For me though, promotion in an automatic place is the much better option.

Its not going up that worries me, its the fact We will be in league one with brent as the owner that does worry me.
Can anyone really see him increasing the budget for del bhey to bring in the sort of players needed to add to the players that will remain here in order for us to stay up first and foremost while also being competitive in league one? Oh and not forgetting the emergency loan window is closed so we will have to have a bigger squad to cope with injuries, form and suspension woes next season.

i just dont see it happenng.

By my reckoning the extra tv money is 120K. I assume half of that will go into Todd's pocket or any residual player debts
Attendances in an average season won't be much higher, especially with the make up of league One teams. So, virtually no extra gate money. Only extra sponsorship money being in a higher league might help, but that isn't going to be a great deal.
So, I can't really see how the playing budget is going to be that much bigger than this season, and that spells trouble. Adams is THE ONLY bright spot that everything depends on.

Unless the balloon payment had been met by then in which case it should at least free up the money the fans put through the turnstiles, unless it goes in the pension pot, lucky we have a transparent board so we don't have to guess.

I'm almost certain the whole idea of Todd's money being a 10 year loan note, was to "keep it off the balance sheet" while the football debt was paid. That loan carries interest, so that'll be a fair bit too. Football payments will be replaced by other payments, you can rest assured. The lesser debt that is owed, the more the club is worth. He's running a tight ship, and quite candid about it.

So when the club is talking about "football creditor debt being reduced" you're saying that Todds money isn't included in that?

Of course not.  Mastpoint don't play football. It's a loan that carries interest. Ridsdale did the exact same thing at Cardiff.
It's not secured on anything, but they can make trouble if interest isn't paid etc. It's an easy way to push another 300K pa at least to the pension pot, as any debt that is reduced means the club is worth more in selling terms. Basic business for dummies. Most football clubs these days have quite a large running cost/expense that disappears down the owner's drain in one form or another. The old was are long gone.

There is no mention of this debt being carried forward in the admin documentation. Quite the reverse, in fact, as Mastpoint firstly allowed their secured loans to become unsecured and then wrote off their claim to the unsecured amount (or at least the 0.022p on the £ that was eventually paid to the unsecured creditors).

The old plc that was Argyle was wound-up and replaced by a new one. What would be the legal position if a debt incurred by one plc was charged to another? I'm guessing weak to non-existant. What was the likelihood of Brent agreeing to honour that debt anytime down the line? I'm guessing slim to zero. He certainly didn't with anybody else apart from the PAST&DT.

When asked at a Fan Q&A (and it is on Youtube somewhere) Brent (or was it Starnes?) denied that such a debt existed.

I am not saying that this debt does not exist because I don't know for sure - but then neither is Lord B who admits to being less than 100% himself ("I'm almost certain").

If I had to place a bet I'd wager that it does not exist - and nor will it ever no matter how many times Lord B refers to it.

If Lord B is certain perhaps he could point us towards some evidence of some sort that supports his case?

Right now we might just as well be discussing unicorns or the Loch Ness Monster which have also been mentioned many times but do not exist, never have existed and never will exist.

I agree. Sounds like a hunch/guess/conspiracy theory. I've never seen it written, or heard it spoken by anyone, anywhere apart from on here by one person.

Yeah, ok Frank. Same old denials from you. It doesn't exist. Again, look at the Cardiff template that Ridsdale rolled out there, and then here. You're a mathematician, and I was an accountant. I think I know something about this sort of thing and how it can work.
I find it very difficult indeed to think these ex owners pootled off with less than the unsecured trade creditors. Especially when you consider Ridsdale was put in charge to get the best deal he could for those very same owners. He wasn't there for the benefit of the football club and fans.
You've always been a bit naive. Fine. In matters like these, where such business types are concerned, think the worst, and you won't be far wrong. They don't do philanthropy.
I can't be bothered, but maybe you could check up on the present mastpoint situation and see if they still exist, being owed £3m +. If, as you assume, there is no legal debt, they will have shorely closed the company 5 years down the line, no ? Why would anyone just write off a loan of £3m when the debtors are a going concern ? You're not making sense.

I can't be bothered to check whether Mastpoint still exists either.

So... that's no evidence at all then? Fine. Just so we know where we are.

Was there not some agreement that one of the bods involved [may have been Gardiner] gets a certain amount of money should Argyle get promotion? £400k rings a bell somewhere.

Well, they do exist, and returns are still being filed.
For the umpteenth time, here's a link to an article by the test pilot, who is also not an accountant. However, it will give you a starting point, should you be interested. I've linked before the negotiating that had to go on at Cardiff over similar 10 year loan notes between Hammam and Tan.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You spend a lot of time adding up figures, but very little time checking whether you've included the right figures. Accountancy is an art form out of the creative minds of men. Balance sheets are not what they used to be. I'm not being stroppy Sir Frank, I quite like you. I just don't get your blinkers on this subject.
Regardless of the well reported TV money going to pay down loan notes should Argyle start to get a CCC bunce, they actually do mature eventually, and something has to be done about it, CCC or no.