Argyle v Burton preview and match thread

Grumpy wrote:

3 points in the bag and off the bottom if we get anything from the next couple of games I will allow myself a little touch of optimism about surviving as a football league team come the end of the season, but this being Plymouth Argyle I expect they will clutch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Not Wotton weeping again

General_Rastus wrote:

Freathy wrote:

125+1 wrote:

I thought Northampton were pulling away from the bottom after a change of manager

A temporary glich - they will finish way above us and you know it.

You're a rather cynical chappie are you not ??

To be honest I find his relentless negativity a breath of fresh air after browsing PASOTI and reading about a glorious 2-1 victory, courtesy of a last minute penalty, of a club whose supporters only watch when Derby aren't at home, passionately aided by Forza Verde 1886 who made La Bonbonera look like a senior greens meeting.

Bogsider wrote:

General_Rastus wrote:

Freathy wrote:

125+1 wrote:

I thought Northampton were pulling away from the bottom after a change of manager

A temporary glich - they will finish way above us and you know it.

You're a rather cynical chappie are you not ??

To be honest I find his relentless negativity a breath of fresh air after browsing PASOTI and reading about a glorious 2-1 victory, courtesy of a last minute penalty, of a club whose supporters only watch when Derby aren't at home, passionately aided by Forza Verde 1886 who made La Bonbonera look like a senior greens meeting.

They actually banned Freathy for his negativity. He never once responded to abuse and was largely proven correct in his predictions.

I did respond, Big Gay Bears, Aviva Boys, Napoleon's Farm........... amongst others

Edit............... interesting to see Nool's headless chicken Mackie, Buz and Dan Gosling all on Sky today in the early game.
How close were we and if only we hadn't been ordered to, 'Trust in Stapes' or eff off and support Manu !

It's less than comforting to realise that the fans' representation at the club is very likely to be centred around these self same local legends of vision and class.
Right people, Who's goin Forrest Green then ?

from a Burton fan

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Burton crashed to a disappointing 2-1 defeat at bottom-placed Plymouth Argyle this afternoon: disappointing not just for the result but for the fact that the Brewers were largely outplayed by a team that hasn`t been able to buy a win this season, such has been their poor form.

Paul Peschisolido gave a start to Andres Gurrieri, but otherwise the side was much as expected and the main point of discussion as the teams were announced was the inclusion of McGrath and Bolder as the central midfield pairing. Surely the manager didn`t want to play deep against the side on the bottom of the League 2 table? Oh yes he did.

One surprise was the inclusion of Tom Parkes on the bench. The central defender, on loan from Leicester City, has recovered from his early season injury and was deemed fit enough to return to the first-team squad.

Plymouth had a side packed with experience, particularly in Darren Purse and Paul Wotton, the latter receiving rapturous applause as his name was read out. To balance the older players Carl Fletcher also selected youth, particularly in right-sided midfielder Luke Young, at 18 one of the players with the least experience out on the pitch. Boy, were we going to remember his name at the end of the game!

From the start it was Plymouth setting the pace, playing the ball around and belying their 24th place in the league. The Brewers did get possession and Calvin tested Argyle keeper Jake Cole with a shot that the Plymouth stopper took with ease, but the word "scrappy" certainly best described the opening encounters.

In return, Ashley Hemmings got free of his marker and put in a cross that Ross Atkins came for, seemed to have second thoughts about, went for it anyway and ended up fumbling the ball out for a corner that Burton dealt with. A lucky escape.

Wotton was narrowly wide with a shot from distance and Luke Young was giving Blanchett a torrid time down the Brewers left side, with his pace leaving our left back in trouble on several occasions. Up front for Argyle, Feeney was working hard against James and Rhino whilst at the other end Calvin was giving his usual 110%, ably supported by Justin and Chris Palmer.

Niggly fouls and a number of free kicks were the order of the day, and it took the referee until almost on 40 minutes before he produced a card, finally flashing yellow at Plymouth`s Simon Walton for a foul on McGrath.

Half-time came around, the players trooped off and the supporters went hunting for a drink. Zero goals and practically zero entertainment.

The second half kicked off and it took the hosts just a couple of minutes to edge into the lead. The boy Young picked up a loose ball and played it in to Plymouth number 8, Simon Walton. The former Leeds and QPR midfielder took the ball in his stride before unleashing a shot from distance that Atkins went in vain for.

1-0 to Plymouth and Home Park suddenly became noisy.

Given the form of Burton recently, Plymouth sensed they could be onto something here and pushed forward, keeping Burton on the back-foot for a spell. Young was seemingly instrumental in these attacks and the Brewers didn`t seem to have any way of dealing with the pressure.

With their tails up Plymouth had a couple of good opportunities, first of all Young took the ball from Hemmings and unleashed a curling shot beyond the grasp of Atkins that hit a post, then a Plymouth midfielder - possibly Wotton - hit a shot from distance towards the Albion goal. Thankfully this time our goalkeeper managed to parry it away for another corner.

Midway through the half and Burton were back on level terms thanks to a goal by Calvin. By this time an ineffectual Macca had given way to Cleveland and Chris Palmer had gone off for Jacques, and it was the latter who was fouled by Plymouth right-back Bignot. Cleveland took the free-kick and it appeared to have gone beyond the Plymouth goal, but Justin managed to get to the ball and nodded it back across goal, whereupon Calvin was perfectly placed to guide the ball in with his head from close range.

1-1, and maybe, just maybe a fightback was on the cards.

There was no doubt that Burton were up for the fight, typified by Gurrieri who was chasing down anything and everything. The only worry was that his tackling was often mistimed at best, resulting in several free-kicks going against him and possession being passed to an opposition in ascendency.

Into the final straight of the match and another free-kick was conceded that resulted in Purse heading narrowly over, and you were left wondering whether Burton could weather the storm and return home with a point safely tucked away.

Alas, no.

With the clock ticking down Plymouth played another short corner routine and Hemmings ran into the Burton box. Gurrieri put in a challenge that seemed weak but the referee had spotted something in it, blew his whistle and pointed to the spot. A penalty it was. Walton kept his composure, stepped up and moments later it was 2-1 to Plymouth and little time left for a second Burton recovery. Shortly afterwards the referee blew for time and Burton had slumped to a third consecutive defeat.

Cue depression amongst the Burton travelling faithful who had seen their side outperformed and tactically outclassed by their hosts. Not only that but there was also the prospect of the 240-mile drive home to contend with.

Sometimes being a football supporter is just no fun at all, although it has to be said that the Plymouth supporters encountered were a decent bunch and here`s hoping that they now begin their climb up the table. On today`s showing if they can maintain that form they should do well. And remember the name of Luke Young - that kid looks a real prospect.

I remember reporting that Luke looked to have a touch of class after witnessing the debacle at Oxford.

Daresay he'll be out of the door before long if he continues to impress. We certainly can't keep promising young players at this level, or lower.

I think the Burton report is more accurate than some of the "lucky win" posts on here. Only one bone to pick which is that their keeper didn't move for Walton's first cracker. It hit his net with his feet firmly planted and him looking sideways at it. Instead of talking our wins down people should be more pragmatic and see them for what they are, a win and on this occasion in my opinion simply deserved as is said in the oppositions report on the match.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I think the Burton report is more accurate than some of the "lucky win" posts on here. Only one bone to pick which is that their keeper didn't move for Walton's first cracker. It hit his net with his feet firmly planted and him looking sideways at it. Instead of talking our wins down people should be more pragmatic and see them for what they are, a win and on this occasion in my opinion simply deserved as is said in the oppositions report on the match.

I think we 'get it' sensible bloke. All views are welcomed.

Tell me, did you 'trust in Stapes' , hate 'Hollowhead' etc., or did you, like my pragmatic, sensible self, realise that we had a problem ?

And when may I ask did you "realise we had a problem" then? When we were in the top half of the Championship or when the creditors came knocking at the gate? All those "I saw this coming" people should take up a career as a Gypsy Accora is all I can say. No I did not hate Holloway either but I did not like his proclamations of never dying love for all things green when he was the first one out the door when a more lucrative offer came along. This site continually has a go at PASOTI for being somewhat on the green tinted side of life and of course for having a few dickheads in charge as well. If PASOTI is the shinning Christ then ATD clearly has taken a stance of being the Anti Christ where it seems pretty much everything has to be negative. Why was our win yesterday "lucky"? If you look at it that way how many of our losses have been "unlucky"? I would guess the answer to be all of them either way. I'm just happy with the win and happen to hold the view that it was deserved rather than lucky and the Burton supporter who was obviously there as well seems to agree with that.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

And when may I ask did you "realise we had a problem" then? When we were in the top half of the Championship or when the creditors came knocking at the gate? All those "I saw this coming" people should take up a career as a Gypsy Accora is all I can say. No I did not hate Holloway either but I did not like his proclamations of never dying love for all things green when he was the first one out the door when a more lucrative offer came along. This site continually has a go at PASOTI for being somewhat on the green tinted side of life and of course for having a few dickheads in charge as well. If PASOTI is the shinning Christ then ATD clearly has taken a stance of being the Anti Christ where it seems pretty much everything has to be negative. Why was our win yesterday "lucky"? If you look at it that way how many of our losses have been "unlucky"? I would guess the answer to be all of them either way. I'm just happy with the win and happen to hold the view that it was deserved rather than lucky and the Burton supporter who was obviously there as well seems to agree with that.

Been saying it before we even made the championship dear boy. Our board were always going to be outclassed financially at the level. Stapes and his cronies got greedy and wouldn't try to sell or invite investment until it was far too late and then for the wrong reasons.
Got banned from Pasoti for telling them what they refused to listen to, long before the wheels came off. They were too busy 'enjoying the ride' and didn't want to listen to modern day, football reality.' Trust in Stapes!' came the cry.The organic model, year on year progress etc etc
I admit that many on here are cynical but if you have seen all this coming from afar, then are asked to support the self same people who denied you a voice and change their position to suit personal positioning, it does tend to polarise opinion.
They are the ever present, bucket rattling, loyal to the club no matter what people. We are the sceptics. Naaaaat praaaaaper fans ! Vile scum, some would say.

The reality is we all want the club to do well.We all care.We're all hooked to some degree. The difference is the vision on how this can be achieved.
Some will accept eternal mediocrity for England's 13th largest city club, others want better.
At least Peter Jones is back and he understands what is needed should we ever return to the 2nd tier.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

And when may I ask did you "realise we had a problem" then? When we were in the top half of the Championship or when the creditors came knocking at the gate? All those "I saw this coming" people should take up a career as a Gypsy Accora is all I can say. No I did not hate Holloway either but I did not like his proclamations of never dying love for all things green when he was the first one out the door when a more lucrative offer came along. This site continually has a go at PASOTI for being somewhat on the green tinted side of life and of course for having a few dickheads in charge as well. If PASOTI is the shinning Christ then ATD clearly has taken a stance of being the Anti Christ where it seems pretty much everything has to be negative. Why was our win yesterday "lucky"? If you look at it that way how many of our losses have been "unlucky"? I would guess the answer to be all of them either way. I'm just happy with the win and happen to hold the view that it was deserved rather than lucky and the Burton supporter who was obviously there as well seems to agree with that.

Tringreen was advocating that Stapleton and co should seek extra help as far back as 2005.I only read posts on PASOTI back in those days,i didn't used to post myself,but clearly remember the hammer that he used to get from certain quarters in stating his belief that without assistance,the Stapleton regime would ultimately bring disaster to the club.So,there was certainly no "Gypsy Acora" involved-it was the consistent expression of a long held view,based on previous experience of the uselessness of the local based directors in progressing the club any further.Did you watch Swansea today?

BTW,i agree with you that Argyle deserved to win yesterday.

At a guess I would say either the purchase of the freehold or the rejection of the consortium investment. When you add this to the aggressive pro Stapleton attitude on pbay, the support was irreversably split in two. Many saw the way things were going and couldn't be fucked watching a provincial board terrified of losing their gravy train chicken out of doing something special and saw that once again argyle were doomed to repeat history yet again.

Meanwhile the self appointed supporters mouthpieces made it clear that the board could do what the hell they liked out of gratitude. Look how far we've come, enjoy the ride!

Tringreen wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

And when may I ask did you "realise we had a problem" then? When we were in the top half of the Championship or when the creditors came knocking at the gate? All those "I saw this coming" people should take up a career as a Gypsy Accora is all I can say. No I did not hate Holloway either but I did not like his proclamations of never dying love for all things green when he was the first one out the door when a more lucrative offer came along. This site continually has a go at PASOTI for being somewhat on the green tinted side of life and of course for having a few dickheads in charge as well. If PASOTI is the shinning Christ then ATD clearly has taken a stance of being the Anti Christ where it seems pretty much everything has to be negative. Why was our win yesterday "lucky"? If you look at it that way how many of our losses have been "unlucky"? I would guess the answer to be all of them either way. I'm just happy with the win and happen to hold the view that it was deserved rather than lucky and the Burton supporter who was obviously there as well seems to agree with that.

Been saying it before we even made the championship dear boy. Our board were always going to be outclassed financially at the level. Stapes and his cronies got greedy and wouldn't try to sell or invite investment until it was far too late and then for the wrong reasons.
Got banned from Pasoti for telling them what they refused to listen to, long before the wheels came off. They were too busy 'enjoying the ride' and didn't want to listen to modern day, football reality.' Trust in Stapes!' came the cry.The organic model, year on year progress etc etc
I admit that many on here are cynical but if you have seen all this coming from afar, then are asked to support the self same people who denied you a voice and change their position to suit personal positioning, it does tend to polarise opinion.
They are the ever present, bucket rattling, loyal to the club no matter what people. We are the sceptics. Naaaaat praaaaaper fans ! Vile scum, some would say.

The reality is we all want the club to do well.We all care.We're all hooked to some degree. The difference is the vision on how this can be achieved.
Some will accept eternal mediocrity for England's 13th largest city club, others want better.
At least Peter Jones is back and he understands what is needed should we ever return to the 2nd tier.

Bet you wish you never asked

The only thing I would disagree with tringy over is his faith in jones. Jones just wants back in, he won't be doing anything radical.

Bogsider wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

And when may I ask did you "realise we had a problem" then? When we were in the top half of the Championship or when the creditors came knocking at the gate? All those "I saw this coming" people should take up a career as a Gypsy Accora is all I can say. No I did not hate Holloway either but I did not like his proclamations of never dying love for all things green when he was the first one out the door when a more lucrative offer came along. This site continually has a go at PASOTI for being somewhat on the green tinted side of life and of course for having a few dickheads in charge as well. If PASOTI is the shinning Christ then ATD clearly has taken a stance of being the Anti Christ where it seems pretty much everything has to be negative. Why was our win yesterday "lucky"? If you look at it that way how many of our losses have been "unlucky"? I would guess the answer to be all of them either way. I'm just happy with the win and happen to hold the view that it was deserved rather than lucky and the Burton supporter who was obviously there as well seems to agree with that.

Been saying it before we even made the championship dear boy. Our board were always going to be outclassed financially at the level. Stapes and his cronies got greedy and wouldn't try to sell or invite investment until it was far too late and then for the wrong reasons.
Got banned from Pasoti for telling them what they refused to listen to, long before the wheels came off. They were too busy 'enjoying the ride' and didn't want to listen to modern day, football reality.' Trust in Stapes!' came the cry.The organic model, year on year progress etc etc
I admit that many on here are cynical but if you have seen all this coming from afar, then are asked to support the self same people who denied you a voice and change their position to suit personal positioning, it does tend to polarise opinion.
They are the ever present, bucket rattling, loyal to the club no matter what people. We are the sceptics. Naaaaat praaaaaper fans ! Vile scum, some would say.

The reality is we all want the club to do well.We all care.We're all hooked to some degree. The difference is the vision on how this can be achieved.
Some will accept eternal mediocrity for England's 13th largest city club, others want better.
At least Peter Jones is back and he understands what is needed should we ever return to the 2nd tier.

Bet you wish you never asked

The only thing I would disagree with tringy over is his faith in jones. Jones just wants back in, he won't be doing anything radical.

I don't have faith in Jones. Don't know him. He used to feed me info on pasoti during Holloway's tenure.
He did however, show an understanding of the club in an interview on GOS around the time of Holloway leaving. It's still there in the archives.
Pasoti was very anti Jones in those days. Unlike me, he didn't answer back !
I believe the same Pasoti people 'like' him again now.
Funny how some people will change position to be in with the powers that be isn't it ?

There never has been anything wrong with an alternative view on things Tringreen but it doesn't make other people Ostriches or less proper fans. You also can't blame people for getting carried away with a double promotion in 3 years either given the previous seasons and the one we started out with for the first promotion. Of course there would be a wave of euphoria. I don't profess to know the finanaces of the individuals involved with Argyle's last Board but yes it is true that they would never have been able to go the last step on their own. On the other hand you can't blame them for thinking they could hold onto power themselves either given their Stewardship had produced both promotions and a small rise in finishing position each season. What people began to want however was another promotion then and there rather than a steady, hopefully, climb. I'm not sure how seeking outside investment was the wrong time as people had been baying for it for ages. As it turned out it was the wrong people brought in but did we or even you know they would turn out to be the way they were in the end? If you did you must have some knowledge of international business which is more than I have. Mind you I don't claim to know anything about business in the first place. I have not been on this site long and never bothered much about PASOTI in the past either so I have no idea where people were standing a couple of years ago. If you saw it coming and said so then good on you for your insight and no bogsider I have no problem with having asked. As it seems to be forgotten I still hold the opinion that yesterday's result was not a fluke or lucky which was how this thread started out.

History has proven though that you don't get anywhere with slow year on year progress. You see Blackpool and Swansea make the most of their momentum and reap the rewards. So with record season ticket sales and a decent bank balance our board gave Bobby Williamson the money for a bunch of Scottish non entities, careful Gob and refused to back him! The problem was that they got greedy and stopped becoming custodians of the football club and turned into speculators, which considering their initial outlay is a disgrace. However we were stopped from having an opinion by certain people, who also should bear blame for this mess. Yet he's treated as a hero. Go figure!

Bogsider wrote:

History has proven though that you don't get anywhere with slow year on year progress. You see Blackpool and Swansea make the most of their momentum and reap the rewards. So with record season ticket sales and a decent bank balance our board gave Bobby Williamson the money for a bunch of Scottish non entities, careful Gob and refused to back him! The problem was that they got greedy and stopped becoming custodians of the football club and turned into speculators, which considering their initial outlay is a disgrace. However we were stopped from having an opinion by certain people, who also should bear blame for this mess. Yet he's treated as a hero. Go figure!

Exactly.

By the time Stapleton and co brought in 'investors' [ well the Japs put money in the local directors pockets and the others gambled with the club itself], the club was already shot away playing wise and was in terminal decline.
Holloway and his players/staff had seen the writing on the wall and had moved on. Stapleton and Pasoti blamed apathetic janners when all that was required was cash backed ambition.
If Argyle are doing well, attendances always rise in the new year and with the club in and around the play off positions,manager and players retained, one or two loaned additions to the squad etc., we could well have made it like Blackpool did 3 years later on smaller gates.
At least we would have tried.

I completely lost it with *****wallet when Ian Holloway said in the press that Argyle fans should be prepared to see key players depart. And this was after *****wallet's "we'll go for it" bollocks. We were riding high in the Championship with arguably the best side we'd ever had. Promotion to the big time was not only possible but IMO probable. All it took would have been a bit of investment to tweek the team. Said investment was even offered to *****wallet on a plate by the London Consortium. But as we know the arrogant and outclassed *****wallet et al had "other plans in place". This act of greed and treachery put us where we are now. At the time I couldn't believe the hysterical defending of *****wallet and the demonising of Ollie by the pasoti mob majority. "Look how far we've come" and "enjoy the ride" were the two odious slogans being spouted by the ****wallet defenders. How anyone coudn't see our demise coming in 2008 is quite baffling.

BBC highlights. Walton's finish looks better than I thought it was-

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