Shot at Jimbo...?

Grovehill wrote:

Why's everyone asking about the budget?

Like all the rest of the teams in this Division it should be 55% of the income-so, as one of the best supported teams, PAFC should have plenty of spending power (for this division)

If not where's the money going?


The bigger question is (and has been for years) where's the money coming to clear the FC debt?

I can't see JB using his own money, so I suspect that he's touting the club to prospective buyers even as we read this

Didn't Starnes Say the 55% figure can be got round easily? No one has been penalised for breaching it have they ?

And unless someone is prepared to stupid money for an asset free club, Brent is going nowhere

I don't buy this "he's gone for quality, not quantity routine".  Who says so ? You're just making it up as you go along. If we were bottom of the league, would you be saying he had gone for quality ? None of us know who is being paid what.
Just maybe Adams got Carey et al on a great deal, as an introduction for those players into the higher paid English marketplace, or maybe just followed him for a season out of being loyal or too cold up there. Any talk of paying for quality players just protects Brent from what I am feel is a very poor budget, especially given Starnes' evasive manouevering on the subject, and nowhere near the 55% of turnover allowed. And still nowhere near 55% - football creditor payment.

ejh wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

tigertony wrote:

P'raps DA knows that spending now means less in Jan which is, after all, a very important month. So comments of ''couldn't afford'' was possibly based on the pot of cash available beween now and Feb.
If JB wants to sell then he knows the value will rise after promotion.
As for clubs eyeing up DA? He hasn't yet won anything in England and if you think that struggling Lge 1 or Champ clubs would be attracted then remember that over the last 5 years the managers of teams in the top 3 have not, in general, been enticed away. Those that were Nigel Clough (albeit from Burton in Conf) and Gary Rowett have not done that well. Luggy at Saints is another prime example of a manager jumping up the leagues (albeit some of that was player power). DA's CV shows a fantastic job in Scotland with Ross County but, so far, nothing in England.

Mmmm.Taking over a disater outfit at Birmingham,comfortably avoiding relegation and then mounting a realistic promotion campaign the season after doesn't really look that bad from this angle.

I was just about to jump on that comment, but see someone else has. Rowett has done pretty bloody well at Birmingham. If you saw their team which played Argyle in the Capital One Cup, it was ordinary, and they stayed up only due to a last minute goal on the last game of the season.

Rowett has come in and made them a competitive side again in not long at all. They are currently 6 points off top of the league which is considerably better than what they were doing under Lee Clark.

Here's a bit of reading on the side Rowett inherited: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Failed punt on a lower league manager? Rowett is not exactly an example of that.

Rowett is a self serving tool. Here he is talking about turning down a "job offer" which might have come as a surprise to the bloke whose job was being offered. Who was still doing that job at the time

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Here he is claiming himself as some sort of genius in a game they lost albeit to a team managed by another self serving tool Tim "proper football man" sherwood 


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Sir John Hawkins wrote:

I don't buy this "he's gone for quality, not quantity routine".  Who says so ? You're just making it up as you go along. If we were bottom of the league, would you be saying he had gone for quality ? None of us know who is being paid what.
Just maybe Adams got Carey et al on a great deal, as an introduction for those players into the higher paid English marketplace, or maybe just followed him for a season out of being loyal or too cold up there. Any talk of paying for quality players just protects Brent from what I am feel is a very poor budget, especially given Starnes' evasive manouevering on the subject, and nowhere near the 55% of turnover allowed. And still nowhere near 55% - football creditor payment.

Are you for real, "if we were bottom of the league would I be saying he'd gone for quality" course I Bleddy wouldn't, but not too sure if you've noticed but we're actually top of the league !

I'm just at a loss as to how you know Adams has been paying top dollar for Carey. And what about Boateng and Tanner's loans ? He might have got them for almost next to nothing, we don't know. Maybe word has it he's a manager that can improve loan youngsters. Maybe he just has an eye for talent that other managers don't. Maybe he just brings the best out of players. Mchugh is certainly a different player under him. And I bet no one is saying anymore he paid top dollar for Jervis, after Saturday's display.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

I'm just at a loss as to how you know Adams has been paying top dollar for Carey. And what about Boateng and Tanner's loans ? He might have got them for almost next to nothing, we don't know. Maybe word has it he's a manager that can improve loan youngsters. Maybe he just has an eye for talent that other managers don't. And I bet no one is saying anymore he paid top dollar for Jervis, after Saturday's display.

We don't know, but do you really think a player with Carey's talent is down here for average L2 wages, Cos if you do your very naive and letting your dislike of all things Jimmy get in the way of rationale thinking, but hey that's my opinion and I'm not trying to persuade anyone to agree with it, just expressing it.

We'll just have to agree to differ graiser. No harm there.
Jimmy is certainly a target of mine, I make no secret of that, but naive I'm not.
If I see someone coated in teflon, I immediately think it's manufactured. That's how human things are.

Looking at it from another perspective I supose it's refreshing to hear that we just couldn't afford someone rather than the usual reasons... the wag, family, kids, shopping, the distance from normal civilisation etc etc....

A charismatic manager, with an eye for a player,tends to get who he wants. He'll only target those with known ability or potential. Whether he can keep them is down to the club's owner..............................we're pretty f*cked if that's the case.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

I don't buy this "he's gone for quality, not quantity routine".  Who says so ? You're just making it up as you go along. If we were bottom of the league, would you be saying he had gone for quality ? None of us know who is being paid what.
Just maybe Adams got Carey et al on a great deal, as an introduction for those players into the higher paid English marketplace, or maybe just followed him for a season out of being loyal or too cold up there. Any talk of paying for quality players just protects Brent from what I am feel is a very poor budget, especially given Starnes' evasive manouevering on the subject, and nowhere near the 55% of turnover allowed. And still nowhere near 55% - football creditor payment.

Well Reuben Reid is a well admired striker at this level. He wouldn't be sticking around for bargain basement wages. I remember being quite impressed the club held on to him actually. We gave him a two year contract in summer 2014 after a 20+ goal season (he was available to anyone on a free) and sources close to Reuben indicated he was weighing up the Portsmouth/Bristol City move. Credit to Sheridan/Brent, they convinced him to stay.

Given that from last season, we've lost Blizzard, O'Connor, Banton, Alessandra, Norburn, Morgan, Lecointe, Allen, Richards. Nine contracted players we had to pay a weekly wage to.
 
On loan we returned Holmes-Dennis, Bobby Reid, Olly Lee, Gethin Jones, Zak Ansah. Argyle's payment obligations can't be certain here, but nothing comes free.

So Adams came in having lost 14 players. He brought in Sawyer, Carey, Wylde, Simpson and Jervis as contracted players. Then he brought Boateng, Tanner and Threlkeld in on loan, and offered professional contracts to Callum Hall and Louis Rooney.

It stands to reason that replacing 14 with 10 and not even having a few pennies leftover for a loan player after can be seen as 'investing in quality over quantity'. 

It is pretty clear that Carey will be on more than Blizzard was, Simpson more than Norburn. You get rid of ordinary players and replace them with good players who have reputations for quality, and chances are they are going to require a better wage for that to happen.

Especially moving down to the arse end of England for a one year deal.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

ejh wrote:

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

I don't buy this "he's gone for quality, not quantity routine".  Who says so ? You're just making it up as you go along. If we were bottom of the league, would you be saying he had gone for quality ? None of us know who is being paid what.
Just maybe Adams got Carey et al on a great deal, as an introduction for those players into the higher paid English marketplace, or maybe just followed him for a season out of being loyal or too cold up there. Any talk of paying for quality players just protects Brent from what I am feel is a very poor budget, especially given Starnes' evasive manouevering on the subject, and nowhere near the 55% of turnover allowed. And still nowhere near 55% - football creditor payment.

Well Reuben Reid is a well admired striker at this level. He wouldn't be sticking around for bargain basement wages. I remember being quite impressed the club held on to him actually. We gave him a two year contract in summer 2014 after a 20+ goal season (he was available to anyone on a free) and sources close to Reuben indicated he was weighing up the Portsmouth/Bristol City move. Credit to Sheridan/Brent, they convinced him to stay.  I suspect that's exactly what Reuben is weighing up right now, whilst resting his ever so poorly hip. It'll come good just in time for him to get 3 or 4 games under his belt before the transfer window to show how super fit he is. End of the month is my guess.  I suspect Portsmouth now have hugely more money available than Argyle, due to their stroke of fortune. Their 55% massively dwarfs our 55%- football creditors - other debts and interest owing thereon. He's not getting any younger and he needs a big contract in his mind.  

Given that from last season, we've lost Blizzard, O'Connor, Banton, Alessandra, Norburn, Marvin Morgan, Lecointe, Allen, Richards.
 
On loan we returned Holmes-Dennis, Bobby Reid, Olly Lee, Gethin Jones, Zak Ansah.

So Adams came in having lost 14 players. He brought in Sawyer, Carey, Wylde, Simpson and Jervis as contracted players. Then he brought Boateng, Tanner and Threlkeld in on loan, and offered professional contracts to Callum Hall and Louis Rooney.

It stands to reason that replacing 14 with 10 and not even having a few pennies leftover for a loan player after can be seen as 'investing in quality over quantity'.  It can also be seen as there being a smaller budget this season, maybe, in no small part, due to the Nikkkkkkkkkkkk fiasco. Don't forget the need for Wrathall to be asked for 800K or whatever it was.

It is pretty clear that Carey will be on more than Norburn was, Simpson more than Blizzard. You get rid of ordinary players and replace them with good players who have reputations for quality, and chances are they are going to require a better wage for that to happen.

Especially moving down to the arse end of England for a one year deal.

So you are suggesting a) that Reuben Reid's injury is fake b) he is being kept out of action to protect him from injury c) he will be sold in January d) James Brent has a cheaper set of players now than he did last season.

Luckily we only need to wait a couple of months to see your theory on a, b and c tested.

It is of course not true. If JB wanted to sell we'd have done it in the summer when Pompey were begging. We went out of our way to keep him. And now we are top of the league. Sell your best player to jeopardise a promotion campaign, increased attendances and a chance to get out of the division for a hundred grand or two?

It w ll be the same figure, less more likely, than would have been turned down by Argyle in the summer.

As for point d, that Argyle have reduced the budget, once you simply accept that players from the Scottish Premier League (Carey, Wylde, Jervis) may likely cost more than non league/League Two journeymen (Norburn, Blizzard, Morgan, Alessandra), we can sooner clear up the conspiracy on that matter.

We all know brenty potter has short arms and deep pockets

thats why he gets piggy to have a everything must go sale every other day to pay the bills.

sooner brent fecks off with piggy and the wife stealer the better,
never seen such a bunch of cnuts in all my life

I'm not taking sides here but there is very little money to be made in Scottish football. On 5LIVE the other night they were talking about Celtic and their budget after they lost to Molde. The consensus was that Celtic's budget was far higher than Molde's but in contrast somebody they were after had joined Burnley for £9m instead. This suggests that Burnley have greater spending power than Celtic.

That's fairly mind-blowing. I suppose that Burnley's parachute payments give them more clout financially than you might suppose but even still...

Now factor in that Celtic are the moneybags Scottish team and ponder exactly what players at the rest of the Scottish clubs get to spend.

Factor in Graham Carey. He was released by Ross County. Ross Co's mean home attendance last season was only 3525. That's roughly half of ours. So despite him having been playing at a higher (?) level in the SPL it's not unreasonable to think that Argyle could outbid Ross Co without breaking the bank.

Taking this a step further only Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd had bigger crowds than we did (and the last 2 not by much).  

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There must be lots of players in Scotland who would jump at the chance to move south and they'd probably get paid more if they did even at a relatively low English level. And not only would their wage increase so too would their chances of moving on in the English game once they have proven themselves this side of H's wall where they could start to trouser serious dosh at somewhere like, say, Burnley in the CCC.

Blimey.Little Yeovil bottom of the league but still averaging more than Exeter for attendance. Bit embarrassing, that.

Tringreen wrote:

First signs that DA will be ripe for the picking, due to the fact the club is in the hands of a non investor, protected by his jam boys and their Aviva followers.
If he doesn't back Adams after the start he's made, even the Avivas will get restless.

It'll end in tears I tellee .

there be civil war surely tring with argyle doing so well and jimmy not pulling up surely not even jimmys jesters could justify or even defend him on that one...but they will watch the arse lickers

EJ, I'm not suggesting Brent or Adams are keeping Reid in padded wool, that's plainly ludicrous, I'm suggesting it's the player himself who has taken to the sick bay. It does happen you know. Reid and his agent will be trying anything in the book to make sure someone, anyone, gives him a hefty contract next time around. Nothing like going down with an injury to show your employer your determination to get your way, no matter what. . An excellent negotiation ploy. I suspect he doesn't mind which team offers him, but the level of pay has to be right. With Brent's refusal to spend a penny more of his own, Adams will have a tough decision foisted on him. He won't be happy.
 
As for Carey's wages, Sir Frank has explained the Scotish market quite well. When we were in the championship, the top SPL teams couldn't compete with us. Not only that, the quality of what found it's way down here was abysmal. I don't think clubs South of the border have much appreciation of anything that goes on North of the border. Carey is a pleasant surprise, and probably wasn't on anyone's radar, much like Adams himself. They both will be now, despite this being the end of the known world.

What possibly tipped the balance when RR re-signed for us in the summer when he had his pick of clubs, is that he is settled with a local girl who I hear would much prefer not to uproot. He's with a mate of mines daughters friend. He's just bought her a new motor actually.

That sort of influence can't be underestimated.

Czarcasm wrote:

What possibly tipped the balance when RR re-signed for us in the summer when he had his pick of clubs, is that he is settled with a local girl who I hear would much prefer not to uproot. He's with a mate of mines daughters friend. He's just bought her a new motor actually.

That sort of influence can't be underestimated.

Well let's hope his wife ain't reading this. You're mate talks boll**ks and is dangerous. This is utter tripe.

Thousands of people working in the SW would rather not uproot but when someone dangles double your wages in your face with a sponsored car, signing on fee, relocation expenses and an Ivor Dewdneys pastie hand delivered every day then ...... ? Its human nature and nothing to do with loyalty. Do WAGS and kids get a say? I would hope so but when you mention swopping the Primark shop card with the YSL card then ... ?
D'you think RR would buy me a new car?

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

EJ, I'm not suggesting Brent or Adams are keeping Reid in padded wool, that's plainly ludicrous, I'm suggesting it's the player himself who has taken to the sick bay. It does happen you know. Reid and his agent will be trying anything in the book to make sure someone, anyone, gives him a hefty contract next time around. Nothing like going down with an injury to show your employer your determination to get your way, no matter what. . An excellent negotiation ploy. I suspect he doesn't mind which team offers him, but the level of pay has to be right. With Brent's refusal to spend a penny more of his own, Adams will have a tough decision foisted on him. He won't be happy.
 
As for Carey's wages, Sir Frank has explained the Scotish market quite well. When we were in the championship, the top SPL teams couldn't compete with us. Not only that, the quality of what found it's way down here was abysmal. I don't think clubs South of the border have much appreciation of anything that goes on North of the border. Carey is a pleasant surprise, and probably wasn't on anyone's radar, much like Adams himself. They both will be now, despite this being the end of the known world.

It does happen which doesn't mean it is happening.

If Reuben was determined to have his big pay day, he' have thrown his toys out the pram when Pompey so very publically came for him. He'd have followed Hourihane's example of reiterating he wanted to leave, wasn't going to try hard for the club anymore etc. The exact opposite of that happened. Reuben came into the season and it didn't take him long to find top form.

As for feigning injury, is this the same Reuben who willingly played in pain needing weekly injections to get through the last 10-15 games of the season? Is this the selfish wuss who won't put himself on the line unless his terms are continually improved? I'm quite confident the team physio and coaching staff will have had Reuben's hip injury x-rayed and examined and can see the damage for themselves. Unless his agent took a sledgehammer to his hip. In which case he really must want that pay rise from January to June really badly (especially when he can have his pick of the clubs and signing on fees in June).

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

What possibly tipped the balance when RR re-signed for us in the summer when he had his pick of clubs, is that he is settled with a local girl who I hear would much prefer not to uproot. He's with a mate of mines daughters friend. He's just bought her a new motor actually.

That sort of influence can't be underestimated.

Well let's hope his wife ain't reading this. You're mate talks boll**ks and is dangerous. This is utter tripe.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

What possibly tipped the balance when RR re-signed for us in the summer when he had his pick of clubs, is that he is settled with a local girl who I hear would much prefer not to uproot. He's with a mate of mines daughters friend. He's just bought her a new motor actually.

That sort of influence can't be underestimated.

Well let's hope his wife ain't reading this. You're mate talks boll**ks and is dangerous. This is utter tripe.

You have a PM Rollo.

What if Rollo Tomasi is Reuben's wife?

ejh wrote:

What if Rollo Tomasi is Reuben's wife?

take a bow Sir.