J. BACK

Josh Pope wrote:

Blimey, times like this I'm glad I got banned from pasoti because my reaction to some of the knee-jerkers wouldn't have been the most pleasant. Steve Evans out in force I see, but not banned for trolling, for some reason.

Either way, I hope we'll come back stronger than this.........
Anyone know when Richards is back?

Some of the comments on pasoti are a bit depressing when in reality it was one of those days. Bentley, unlike the car, is still lacking finesse, clean lines and maturity. In this league the leaders with 10 men would struggle against the bottom team with 11 men.
Its quite amusing that 2 years back a crisis was when we lost 4 in a row but now its a crisis after 2 losses. At the turn of the year for the past 3 seasons we have had 30, 24 and 18 points. 37 today.

Progress?

Greenskin wrote:

Mock Cuncher wrote:

christ, another paragon of virtue and soft challenges.

I recks I'm just harder than you both, so have a higher bad tackle tolerance...

I'll watch the replay and let you know if I change my mind.

Actually I won't. cos watching replays is for dullards and I'm ait on the lash tonight.

Being a serial dullard, just watched the tackle on SSN. Sorry to piss on your chips Mock but.... Fook me, it was a shocker, real Roy Keane/Kevin Muscat type stuff, over the top and a real potential leg breaker, no contact with the ball either. No need for it ,it wasn't a remotely dangerous situation, absolutely ridiculous and the youth card is no excuse. Don't rate the lad much actually, looks lumbering with awful distribution-roll on Hartley and Nelson being fit again.

Be thankful you've still got a team !

I see that yet another Argo reject, Ashley Barnes, is proving himself in the PL. There has to be something in the water ffs .

Josh Pope wrote:

Blimey, times like this I'm glad I got banned from pasoti because my reaction to some of the knee-jerkers wouldn't have been the most pleasant. Steve Evans out in force I see, but not banned for trolling, for some reason.

I think we can blame two things - the stupid challenge and the odd lack of subs. Both were concerning but I'm sure both were one offs. Bentley doesn't deserve some of the stick he's getting and people thinking he's 'paid and therefore shouldn't make mistakes' clearly don't understand football at all. It was silly, reckless and idiotic, but we shouldn't abuse the lad as a result. I hope he'll come back stronger and he has my support in doing so, because I don't think he's actually a bad defender.

The lack of use of subs thing is weird, two games in three days and no subs in the second is very simply bad management. It's the Shez of late 2013/early 2014, and not something we've seen recently.

As for man of the match then it's between Mellor and Norburn for me. Both Reid's had off days (Reuben especially) and there were other good performances. O'Connor and McHugh weren't great when we went down to 10 but I thought Kellett, Cox and Alessandra did well. McCormick seemed ok but I'll have to watch the replays to see about their goals.
I
Either way, I hope we'll come back stronger than this and at the end of the day I'm still glad Michael Appleton isn't our manager.

Anyone know when Richards is back?

Steve Evans is probably a multi.

tigertony wrote:

Josh Pope wrote:

Blimey, times like this I'm glad I got banned from pasoti because my reaction to some of the knee-jerkers wouldn't have been the most pleasant. Steve Evans out in force I see, but not banned for trolling, for some reason.

Either way, I hope we'll come back stronger than this.........
Anyone know when Richards is back?

Some of the comments on pasoti are a bit depressing when in reality it was one of those days. Bentley, unlike the car, is still lacking finesse, clean lines and maturity. In this league the leaders with 10 men would struggle against the bottom team with 11 men.
Its quite amusing that 2 years back a crisis was when we lost 4 in a row but now its a crisis after 2 losses. At the turn of the year for the past 3 seasons we have had 30, 24 and 18 points. 37 today.

Progress?

We've got 37 points in the fourth division at christmas? fookin ell i never realised the good times were back!

Look how far we've come

Tringreen wrote:

Be thankful you've still got a team !

I see that yet another Argo reject, Ashley Barnes, is proving himself in the PL. There has to be something in the water ffs .

Yeah but he did score against a crap team testerday.

Bentley was nervous at every ball he touched, begs the question was he the best choice given it was a big crowd and a lot of pressure to win - no surprise to many what happened, it was a definite straight red. Despite several idiots in the Demport berating the ref the whole game, which was tedious.
Don't think it was Sheridan's best managerial strategic performance - he will pobably bleat on about Oxford were due a win and anyone can beat antone etc etc.
We essentially threw the game away.

akagreengull wrote:

Bentley was nervous at every ball he touched, begs the question was he the best choice given it was a big crowd and a lot of pressure to win - no surprise to many what happened, it was a definite straight red. Despite several idiots in the Demport berating the ref the whole game, which was tedious.
Don't think it was Sheridan's best managerial strategic performance - he will pobably bleat on about Oxford were due a win and anyone can beat antone etc etc.
We essentially threw the game away.

He has been thrown in head first to first team football so it will take time to settle in and grow. Very few make the same impact like Owen and Rooney when they make the jump to pro football from the youth.

Its a shame we couldnt give him a run of games in reserve football or loaned him out to a conference side to build him up first.

There was no choice but to play Bentley, young or not he was totally to blame for that loss yesterday.
In regard to the criticism of Sheridan ref no subs, when you look at yesterday's bench, who would you have put on and who would you replace
Banton-Not bleddy likely hasn't got a tackle in him and can't defend from the front like Allesandra
Purrington-who for Kellett, not bleddy likely
Thomas-loses the ball too easily
Blizzard-maybe for Norburn/Cox, but is he clear of his injury, we don't know
Morgan-Just about the only possibility

So for me I don't think Sheridan had anybody stronger/game changer who he could have put on

Here's a superb speech for the disheartened fans to hear..

Never in the field of Argyle conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the the current Argyle team, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight them in League Two, we shall fight them on the pitch, we shall fight them with growing confidence and growing strength in the air for the points we feel we deserve, we shall defend our goal, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight them for automatic promotion, or even a Play-Off Place, we shall fight them at terrible football grounds, we shall never surrender.

In my view, the responsibility for the loss has to be spread three ways. One of them you live and learn, the second one is simply bizarre, the third one is blood curdlingly frustrating. Here goes:

Bentley:
He's a kid and at times kids make stupid mistakes. I applauded him off. I certainly didn't boo the Oxford player and there's no question that it was a fair red card but I applauded a player who has come into the team and done well for the past three games. Well, the past two and a bit games anyway. The point is that he's a kid who'll be feeling gutted and doesn't deserve to be humiliated. As was said on another thread, to err is human and to forgive is divine. He will know more than anyone how daft a mistake it was. He deserves our support coming back into the team.

However, looking at the game from a purely analytical point of view and taking our role as supporters of of the equation, it would be hard to argue any other case than that he was mostly responsible for the loss. Oxford looked a very mediocre side for much of the game. We went 1-0 up early on and had plenty of chances at 1-0 whereas they had very little indeed. It looked like it would follow the pattern that so many of our other home games have followed this season. That is, that Argyle go a goal up early on playing stylish attacking football and then cruise through the rest of the game notching one or two more in the process. The curveball was the red card which brought Oxford back into it.
Set pieces:

This is what I call 'the bizarre one'. From open play our defence is sturdy, professional, well organised, inclusive of both power and technique. It does all the right things at all the right times and it virtually never concedes ANY goals. It is without a doubt the best defence in league two. Why then, does that same defence turn so patchy and so 'Fletcheresque' whenever it has to defend set pieces? That is now four times out of the last five League Two games that we have conceded from set pieces. Why do people so often A) lose their man and B) not pick up loose balls with the same wanton abandon as they would with an open ball in loose play? All of the good work that Wotton has installed into the side with open play goals all goes to waste whenever we happen to be defending a set piece. It was the case with four at the back and it's still the case with three at the back. I sincerely hope Sheridan has got intensive training on this issue planned for next week.

Also, McCormick has been very quietly and unnoticeably below par for at least a month now. He's had far too many moments like Jake Cole at his worst where he has dithered between coming off his line and staying on it. One of the Newport goals, one of yesterday's goals, arguably the York goal and also the Mansfield goal have also resulted. He was arguably our players of the season up until Mid November but he seems to be suffering an acute dip in form. People don't expect it from Luke because he's normally such a good player for us but make no mistake: if Jake Cole had played for us this past month, there'd be very few people defending his performances. What the hell has happened to his kicking also?
The lack of subs:
OK, this is the one that has REALLY got my goat. Bentley's rashness whilst not excusable is understandable. The decision, with ten men on the pitch, having played 48 hours before to not bring on ONE SINGLE SUB all game long to my mind is absolutely inexcusable. The mind really does boggle. Is our subs bench the strongest in the world? No. Is our subs bench so bad that it would have made things worse to bring on (say) Banton, Morgan and Blizzard for Alessandra, Reuben Reid and Norburn? Of course it isn't. All three of those players were absolutely cream crackered by the hour mark and understandably so too. Oxford's man advantage certainly helped, yes. But what also helped them was that they used their three subs. When a manager is tactically outhought by Michael Appleton, that points more to incompetence on behalf of his opposing number than it does anything else.

Are the players on our bench our best players? No they are not. Are they top end League Two players? A re-vitalised Blizzard aside, no they are not. But that doesn't mean they have nothing to offer. At the very least, they are fresh legs. DB can slow down the play. MM can make the ball stick up top and run like crazy. Banton for all his uselessness in front of goal at least has proved he can track back this season. Lewi on the other hand was dead on his feet. Even if you accept that he didn't bring a sub on at 1-0 up, why no Thomas or Harvey at 1-1? Even with ten men, the game was ours for the taking if only we had a bit more impetuous. Thomas and Harvey are inconsistent at best but what they certainly do have in their lockers is a lightning-speed run towards goal and a sublime through ball respectively. If there's one game that you MUST bring on fresh legs, it's with ten men having played two days beforehand. A truly maddening decision. The mind really does boggle.

On the positive side, full credit to the majority of the ten who stayed on the pitch. McCormick and McHugh (the latter less so and who did have some good moments) had rather shaky and panicky games that were not at all like their usual selves but the rest of them all did what they could be expected to. O'Connor was a rock at centre-back yet again not only defending well but also starting attacks from the back. Kellet and especially Mellor both had very solid games in the full-back role which I have no doubt is especially difficult to play with ten men. They let very little get down their sides and were both instrumental in maintaining our passing game even when we only had ten men on the pitch. They both looked dangerous and troubled the opposition full-backs too.

I don't agree with the criticism of Reuben yesterday. He's never gonna be a 'chase pigeons' type like Alessandra is. He's built like the proverbial brick you know what. He's not physically one to be ferreting after lost causes like Lewi is. He conserves his energy for short yet eye-catching bursts forward with the ball after he out-muscles an opposition defender (which he ALWAYS does and barely EVER gets credit for). If he ran about needlessly like half of you lot want him to, he'd never have the energy to skin defenders like he does when he actually gets the ball. On the whole I thought he put in a solid display yesterday although admittedly not his best game. Alessandra himself had a typical Alessandra game- fantastic movement and agility which makes defenders panic....but his lack of composure meant he didn't score as many goals as he should have. If he was just slightly more composed, he'd be too good for us.

My main praise goes to the midfield three. Norburn, in spite of how tired out he was culminating in his error at the end, had an absolutely phenomenal 70 minutes or so. He's the best passer of a ball at the club by some distance...and yes, I am including our loanees in that statement. He has also become far more disciplined off the ball and nipped it away from the feet of Oxford players more than once to start an Argyle counter. Bobby had a typically excellent Bobby game- a dynamic box to boxer who can help Cox do the defending but also burst forward and playmake a matter of seconds later. He's a class above this league. My man of the match however has to go to Lee Cox himself. A truly commanding performance from a midfield general whose performances recently are going from 'very good' to 'excellent'. If there was any doubt about his performances in his second spell, surely they have evaporated now. He couldn't do anything about any of the goals but all that was under his control he did majestically. Playing as a defensive midfielder for a side with ten men must be incredibly hard. There was so much coming at him. Oxford tried to play through our midfield with their extra man but Cox's combination of close marking, intelligent positional play and ability to (a couple of near misses aside) tackle cleanly ensured that very little got past him. Any neutral observer watching that game would surely agree that no way did Lee Cox deserve to be on the losing side there.

On the whole, a frustratingly good performance in which we dominated the game and found a lot of time/space in Oxford's final third even when we only had ten men. Even after Bentley's faux pas, we were still the better side at both 1-0 and 1-1. Our set piece achilles heal and Sheridan's ludicrous decision not to use our subs ultimately went on to cost us. Ratings:

McCormick-4

Mellor-8
O'Connor-7
McHugh=5
Bentley-5
Kellett-7

Cox-9 MOTM
Norburn-7
Bobby-8

Reuben-6
Alessandra-6

Subs...oh wait.

Time to put another 50p in the metre. Apologies for the obnoxiously long match review but I'm sure some of you will find it interesting...at least I hope.

Cheers Sam.

Bobby higher than Norburn? Surely not. I know who I rate higher but one was much better than the other yesterday. Also think O'Connor was below his usual standard and Cox's average first half doesn't equate to a 9 overall imo. Mellor looked tidy but went for Noburn as MotM.

I think they were both generally as good as eachother for most of the game but I had to give Bobby the higher rating purely for Norburn's costly error.

I also completely agree about the substitutes bit. I think Shez has improved recently over the course of his time with us, but yesterday that was nothing other than poor management. I often acceot the manager knows best but what happened was inexcusable. If it had been two games in a week or a changed team I would have understood a bit more, but they were clearly exhausted.

Dom Blizzard is not the best player in the world and not the greatest defender but surely we could have chucked him on and thrown him at centre back for the last 15 or 20 just to help defend it at 1-1, enabling us to have a bit more cushion? Thomas and Morgan would have also made sense, especially Morgan cause you know what he'll offer you - gangly effort. He'd have hastled and bustled but would have caused problems.

To not use any subs at all is simply bad managing. No more. A real shame as there was something we could have gotten out of the game.

On another note - yeah that mistake was poor but the shocking corner which lead to the mistake can't be ignored. I cannot stand Bobby's set-pieces, and have no idea why the much better at them Norburn wasn't taking them.

In general thought Bobby was careless and seemed to offer less going forward. Would have given him a 6 and Norburn a high 8.

Welcome back Josh

I thought the left wing back was the best player on the pitch...simply the best footballer out there. Is he ours or a loanee?

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I thought the left wing back was the best player on the pitch...simply the best footballer out there. Is he ours or a loanee?

Kellett- a loanee sadly. Technique is excellent as you say, a proper footballer with real flashes of genius. His defending has got notably better too.

GreenSam wrote:

In my view, the responsibility for the loss has to be spread three ways. One of them you live and learn, the second one is simply bizarre, the third one is blood curdlingly frustrating. Here goes:

Bentley:
He's a kid and at times kids make stupid mistakes. I applauded him off. I certainly didn't boo the Oxford player and there's no question that it was a fair red card but I applauded a player who has come into the team and done well for the past three games. Well, the past two and a bit games anyway. The point is that he's a kid who'll be feeling gutted and doesn't deserve to be humiliated. As was said on another thread, to err is human and to forgive is divine. He will know more than anyone how daft a mistake it was. He deserves our support coming back into the team.

However, looking at the game from a purely analytical point of view and taking our role as supporters of of the equation, it would be hard to argue any other case than that he was mostly responsible for the loss. Oxford looked a very mediocre side for much of the game. We went 1-0 up early on and had plenty of chances at 1-0 whereas they had very little indeed. It looked like it would follow the pattern that so many of our other home games have followed this season. That is, that Argyle go a goal up early on playing stylish attacking football and then cruise through the rest of the game notching one or two more in the process. The curveball was the red card which brought Oxford back into it.
Set pieces:

This is what I call 'the bizarre one'. From open play our defence is sturdy, professional, well organised, inclusive of both power and technique. It does all the right things at all the right times and it virtually never concedes ANY goals. It is without a doubt the best defence in league two. Why then, does that same defence turn so patchy and so 'Fletcheresque' whenever it has to defend set pieces? That is now four times out of the last five League Two games that we have conceded from set pieces. Why do people so often A) lose their man and B) not pick up loose balls with the same wanton abandon as they would with an open ball in loose play? All of the good work that Wotton has installed into the side with open play goals all goes to waste whenever we happen to be defending a set piece. It was the case with four at the back and it's still the case with three at the back. I sincerely hope Sheridan has got intensive training on this issue planned for next week.

Also, McCormick has been very quietly and unnoticeably below par for at least a month now. He's had far too many moments like Jake Cole at his worst where he has dithered between coming off his line and staying on it. One of the Newport goals, one of yesterday's goals, arguably the York goal and also the Mansfield goal have also resulted. He was arguably our players of the season up until Mid November but he seems to be suffering an acute dip in form. People don't expect it from Luke because he's normally such a good player for us but make no mistake: if Jake Cole had played for us this past month, there'd be very few people defending his performances. What the hell has happened to his kicking also?
The lack of subs:
OK, this is the one that has REALLY got my goat. Bentley's rashness whilst not excusable is understandable. The decision, with ten men on the pitch, having played 48 hours before to not bring on ONE SINGLE SUB all game long to my mind is absolutely inexcusable. The mind really does boggle. Is our subs bench the strongest in the world? No. Is our subs bench so bad that it would have made things worse to bring on (say) Banton, Morgan and Blizzard for Alessandra, Reuben Reid and Norburn? Of course it isn't. All three of those players were absolutely cream crackered by the hour mark and understandably so too. Oxford's man advantage certainly helped, yes. But what also helped them was that they used their three subs. When a manager is tactically outhought by Michael Appleton, that points more to incompetence on behalf of his opposing number than it does anything else.

Are the players on our bench our best players? No they are not. Are they top end League Two players? A re-vitalised Blizzard aside, no they are not. But that doesn't mean they have nothing to offer. At the very least, they are fresh legs. DB can slow down the play. MM can make the ball stick up top and run like crazy. Banton for all his uselessness in front of goal at least has proved he can track back this season. Lewi on the other hand was dead on his feet. Even if you accept that he didn't bring a sub on at 1-0 up, why no Thomas or Harvey at 1-1? Even with ten men, the game was ours for the taking if only we had a bit more impetuous. Thomas and Harvey are inconsistent at best but what they certainly do have in their lockers is a lightning-speed run towards goal and a sublime through ball respectively. If there's one game that you MUST bring on fresh legs, it's with ten men having played two days beforehand. A truly maddening decision. The mind really does boggle.

On the positive side, full credit to the majority of the ten who stayed on the pitch. McCormick and McHugh (the latter less so and who did have some good moments) had rather shaky and panicky games that were not at all like their usual selves but the rest of them all did what they could be expected to. O'Connor was a rock at centre-back yet again not only defending well but also starting attacks from the back. Kellet and especially Mellor both had very solid games in the full-back role which I have no doubt is especially difficult to play with ten men. They let very little get down their sides and were both instrumental in maintaining our passing game even when we only had ten men on the pitch. They both looked dangerous and troubled the opposition full-backs too.

I don't agree with the criticism of Reuben yesterday. He's never gonna be a 'chase pigeons' type like Alessandra is. He's built like the proverbial brick you know what. He's not physically one to be ferreting after lost causes like Lewi is. He conserves his energy for short yet eye-catching bursts forward with the ball after he out-muscles an opposition defender (which he ALWAYS does and barely EVER gets credit for). If he ran about needlessly like half of you lot want him to, he'd never have the energy to skin defenders like he does when he actually gets the ball. On the whole I thought he put in a solid display yesterday although admittedly not his best game. Alessandra himself had a typical Alessandra game- fantastic movement and agility which makes defenders panic....but his lack of composure meant he didn't score as many goals as he should have. If he was just slightly more composed, he'd be too good for us.

My main praise goes to the midfield three. Norburn, in spite of how tired out he was culminating in his error at the end, had an absolutely phenomenal 70 minutes or so. He's the best passer of a ball at the club by some distance...and yes, I am including our loanees in that statement. He has also become far more disciplined off the ball and nipped it away from the feet of Oxford players more than once to start an Argyle counter. Bobby had a typically excellent Bobby game- a dynamic box to boxer who can help Cox do the defending but also burst forward and playmake a matter of seconds later. He's a class above this league. My man of the match however has to go to Lee Cox himself. A truly commanding performance from a midfield general whose performances recently are going from 'very good' to 'excellent'. If there was any doubt about his performances in his second spell, surely they have evaporated now. He couldn't do anything about any of the goals but all that was under his control he did majestically. Playing as a defensive midfielder for a side with ten men must be incredibly hard. There was so much coming at him. Oxford tried to play through our midfield with their extra man but Cox's combination of close marking, intelligent positional play and ability to (a couple of near misses aside) tackle cleanly ensured that very little got past him. Any neutral observer watching that game would surely agree that no way did Lee Cox deserve to be on the losing side there.

On the whole, a frustratingly good performance in which we dominated the game and found a lot of time/space in Oxford's final third even when we only had ten men. Even after Bentley's faux pas, we were still the better side at both 1-0 and 1-1. Our set piece achilles heal and Sheridan's ludicrous decision not to use our subs ultimately went on to cost us. Ratings:

McCormick-4

Mellor-8
O'Connor-7
McHugh=5
Bentley-5
Kellett-7

Cox-9 MOTM
Norburn-7
Bobby-8

Reuben-6
Alessandra-6

Subs...oh wait.

Time to put another 50p in the metre. Apologies for the obnoxiously long match review but I'm sure some of you will find it interesting...at least I hope.

Excellent synopsis, I understand the argument/reasons for a substitution but have to disagree that we had anybody on that bench who would have made a significant improvement, with perhaps Morgan being the exception.
Harvey no pace
Blizzard not fully fit ?
Thomas loses the ball too easily but who would he have replaced ?
Banton, who for ?
Purrington, who for ?

Who'd be a Manager eh ?

A match lasting 90mins plus....and is played with eleven players plus three subs.

So why did we decide to play two thirds of a match with only ten players and no subs.

A serious question for Sheridan to answer.......but unfortunately James Brent has no footballing experience to ask that question.......and his board of Directors have no influence to ask anything of anyone.

zyph wrote:

A match lasting 90mins plus....and is played with eleven players plus three subs.

So why did we decide to play two thirds of a match with only ten players and no subs.

A serious question for Sheridan to answer.......but unfortunately James Brent has no footballing experience to ask that question.......and his board of Directors have no influence to ask anything of anyone.

I don't think the Brent out agenda should cloud the fact that a Football Manager is there to manage the football team, as to whether he should have used any subs is open for debate, for myself I not convinced that Sheridan didn't make the right call.
I may have missed it but I haven't seen any suggestions as to which player(s) should have been substituted and for who?

I'd have brought off Reuben for Thomas and hit them on the counter. Late in the game I'd have chucked on Blizzard for Bobby Reid and stuck him at centre back. Might have chucked on Marvin for Alessandra as well. All of these I would have done probably at 1-1.

Please Graiser it's bad enough that the kids aren't taught how to form a précis these days without quoting the whole feckin thing again, a reference would suffice.

zyph wrote:

A match lasting 90mins plus....and is played with eleven players plus three subs.

So why did we decide to play two thirds of a match with only ten players and no subs.

A serious question for Sheridan to answer.......but unfortunately James Brent has no footballing experience to ask that question.......and his board of Directors have no influence to ask anything of anyone.

It was pointed out by someone on PASOTI the other day that Oxford's winning goal came as a result of Norburn losing the ball in midfield and Cox not making a tackle on the bloke who scored the winner. The implication of that was presumably that those two players were knackered and should not have still been on the pitch-logically there is no other conclusion to draw from the chap drawing attention to the incidents in the first place. But as an observer, those two would have been the last players that i'd have taken off and in fact throughout the second half,i was questioning as a mere layman whether anyone should have been taken off-Argyle were fairly comfortable and actually created two or three decent chances and attacks of their own, so IMHO it was by no means as simple a decision as you seem to imply. You can bet your last penny that if Sheridan had made three substitutions after 60 minutes and the same result ensued, then the same people who are doing the slagging now would have been the first to come out with the "what the feck was he playing at. Argyle were doing fine " line, in the same way as the manager got a slating for taking off Lewis and Reuben at Northampton, which was an extraordinary piece of criticism to my way of thinking. Argyle conceded two goals on that day to a mistake by McCormick and a wonder strike, pretty much the same as against Oxford. Argyle were attacking just prior to that second goal-in fact it came from one of those bleddy corners from Bobby-if Sheridan merits criticism, it would be for allowing him to keep taking them when a much better deliverer in Norburn was on the pitch.