Mr Clark on tickek profits

This is what Mr Clark posted on the farm, needs to share it with us


Tucked away in Martyn Starnes interview in the Herald published on Saturday was his confirmation that Argyle only net an average of less than £11 per ticket sold (after concessions and VAT are taken into account). (see quote and article below). Argyle have a high proportion of concessions with, I think, less than 50% of season ticket sales, at least, paying the full (discounted) price and everyone also forgets the 20% VAT on each ticket sale going into the Treasury coffers.

That puts the clamour for additional seating into some perspective when you are calculating the return on the investment made per additional seat. It also highlights the how much the need is to improve revenues by other means such as hospitality / conference / banqueting etc. if the club is to improve turnover and generate income for 'investment' on the pitch.

With an average crowd of 7,300 home league games generate a net return on ticket sales of something like £1.85m of income which is less than 50% of the estimated turnover of the club.

"Starnes continued: “I don’t think the BBC did football clubs a great service with their survey a few weeks ago, when they focused in on the top price for an adult on a matchday.

“They had us down at £22, whereas in fact an adult can buy a ticket for £20 if they buy before the match.

“But it pays no cognisance to the discounts you give for other people in the ground.

“Our average revenue per ticket is less than £11, when you take off the VAT and take into account the discounts.

“Now when you look at it like that, that’s not a huge sum of money that we have to run the club"

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... z3Lx9j3s1o

Well it is a point. That's fore shore.

It begs the question as to how we differ from other clubs in this regard before too much angst is aroused.

If we want to do something about it we need to either:

a) increase concession prices
b) reduce the numbers able to claim a concession
c) increase the price paid by non-concession types
d) increase the numbers of non-concession types
e) some combination of all of the above

... which would up the £11 average and increase the £1.85m gross revenue.

f) maximise other revenue streams.

The best way to do all of those things is to keep winning. If we start to attract bigger crowds as, hopefully, our promotion push continues then nearly all of those to be added will be non-ST holders.

At the figures quoted another 2000, surely achievable, on the gate would add £22k (plus non-admission spend) per match which, given we are supposed to be breaking even now, would be profit.

The next best way is to kick some ass in the commercial department.

Obviously the scope for a huge cash-in on a successful run is limited by stadium capacity but if we could 20,000 in, as we might for a crucial end-of-season QPResque clincher in the shape of Tranmere (us to win the league, them to stay up) then that's 13000 extra bums on seats all coughing up £11 which raises £143,000. All profit. Plus other spending.

This is why capacity is such a central issue: without it you cannot monetise the Good Times, when they come, enough.

It's an interesting conundrum. My dad has two season tickets. One a concession. One full price. Would he forego his concessionary price - maybe he would probably think longer and harder about renewing each year. If he let his expire would the second one continue to be bought. Not a chance. So Argyle risk losing both.

When I had a young family - would I have gone to Argyle with them if I had to pa full price for them - not a chance. Would I have then lost the habit of going to Argyle altogether - very possibly.

John Lloyd/The Trust's survey has for years highlighted an ageing Argyle fan base. So the problem is only going to get worse.

I used to buy one season ticket for me and two for my boys, one has now left home and can't afford more than the odd match and the youngest is saving to go traveling so football has gone from his budget. Personally I could still afford a season ticket but won't buy one to support Brent and his asset strip so it's a few games a year for me now. The moral dilemma hits me hard, one side of the coin I strongly feel that Brent is useless and has his own welfare well in front of what's good for the club yet I want to support the team and see us do well. I particularly want us to get a decent gap to cushion us from admin points deductions in the future.
Starnes can say what he likes but other clubs are managing to cope in this league but then they don't have the legacy debts that we have, if Brent really loved this club he would have put the £900k from council sale into paying this off as he would have the car park land. It's bad enough having Brent in charge without having to read this whinging bullshit all the time.

Iggy wrote:

I used to buy one season ticket for me and two for my boys, one has now left home and can't afford more than the odd match and the youngest is saving to go traveling so football has gone from his budget. Personally I could still afford a season ticket but won't buy one to support Brent and his asset strip so it's a few games a year for me now. The moral dilemma hits me hard, one side of the coin I strongly feel that Brent is useless and has his own welfare well in front of what's good for the club yet I want to support the team and see us do well. I particularly want us to get a decent gap to cushion us from admin points deductions in the future.
Starnes can say what he likes but other clubs are managing to cope in this league but then they don't have the legacy debts that we have, if Brent really loved this club he would have put the £900k from council sale into paying this off as he would have the car park land. It's bad enough having Brent in charge without having to read this whinging bullshit all the time.

I feel your pain, dear boy. Fortunately, I have been far enough removed from the area for long enough, not to have to make the choices.

The income from ticket sales might be only £11 per person, but each 'bum on seat' must also make the club money via purchasing food/drink/programmes/merch during match day. Furthermore the amount the club can charge for pitch sponsorship (e.g. ad boards) + match sponsorship etc must be dependent on crowd size. I imagine a club averaging 7,000 a match can charge more for ptich sponsorship than one only getting 2,000 a match. It's not just ticket sales that you have to consider when you are calculating what capacity is required.

Mr Starnes should consider himself rather lucky as we are living in a time of relative plenty. One of the highest home attendances in the division and far higher than we normally achieve in this division.

Would be interesting to know how much it costs to put on a standard home game,  the average ticket 'contribution' is as you'd expect significantly lower than the full adult ticket cost, quelle feckin surprise, it's the same for all clubs especially in league one/two.
So long as the ticket pricing mix is optimised to maxmimise total contribution/profit that's the key issue.

Much of the core support have concessions is this the point being made here? So what? Best build a proper 7k-9k stand and start attracting more fans then, rather than crying over the market conditions.
Oh but what happens when new fans do start coming, or picking games as they choose... the piggy ignorant psychophantic superfans start banging the bleddy heht plathtics drum, sem bleddy bugger spteeling my seat meht.
They don't want Argyle to grow or progress.
I can't think of anywhere else in the country this mindset is so pervasive

Omfg one thick cnut has brought in the balloon payment/historical debt issue into a thread about ticket pricing strategy.
Dunno whether to laugh or cry. Perhaps gulping down so piggy and plebb goo has rot his brain.

Pafcintheplace wrote:

Omfg one thick cnut has brought in the balloon payment/historical debt issue into a thread about ticket pricing strategy.
Dunno whether to laugh or cry. Perhaps gulping down so piggy and plebb goo has rot his brain.

Yo talkin bait me?

No iggy