The Worse Manager thread from the farm

The first 11 months of Sturrock Mk2 were great - hardly out of the top half of the CCC. It was a sad decline thereafter, but I never thought he deserved the vitriolic abuse he got - he took it with a lot of dignity.

Fletcher gets the vote from me - although his leadership as captain during the collapse will always make him an Argyle legend for me.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Angry wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

Reid inherited a bunch of disinterested players stuck in Plymouth, concerned whether they were gonna get paid or not.

i still had a decent squad good enough to have been top half of the table before the empire fell.

If it wasn't for the enforced sales I suspect we would've made the play-offs.  Once we lost Noone, the better Wright etc etc, we were fecked.

we werent even in the picture before that we were yo yo-ing from midtable posititions. He just wasnt a good enough manager to got us up regardless.

Greenskin wrote:

You haven't lived bhey.Ufton completely fecked Argyle up back in the 1960's,selling good players on the cheap and bringing in crap replacements.Mind you,how much of that was induced by the useless board is a matter for speculation but he was awful on the face of it,decent chap but awful,far worse than Sturrock mk2 .

'He keeps all his money in a big brown bag, inside the zoo. What a thing to do!'

Bobby" the lads fought hard" Saxton

I think this is very unkind to Sturrock. He didn't exactly have the strongest of hands to play. In fact the cards were so weak on his arrival that Holloway had thought "sod this for a game of soldiers" and upped and went. Also the initial exodus of players from Holloway's era was only part way through.

On top of that we all know the financial meltdown that followed and the seeds for it were in place and sprouting. Had they not been it is entirely possible that at least some of those players who left might have stayed.

The criticism is that the players brought in to replace those who left weren't up to it. Which is true. What isn't known is how far down the list of those players wanted by Sturrock they were. I honestly don't know but I don't reckon they were all first choice. So while they might not have been much good that doesn't mean that they weren't the best he could get.

And even then many of them looked like good buys when they were made. Folly had impressed at Sheff Wed as had McLean and Mpenza was a proven international. He also brought in Mackie, Puncheon, Noone and Bolassie who have all gone on to grace the premier League with some regularity. He signed BWP who also proved, when fit, to be a good player. Gallagher was excellent. It wasn't all Chris Clark and Jim Paterson.

"When fit" is what did for Sturrock. There was BWP's knee injury, Mpenza's mysteriously rare availability and an astonishing rash of injuries that wiped out a succession of defenders all played against a back-drop of boardroom turmoil and the undeniably unsettling Seip episode.

Yes it all went disastrously wrong. And yes results were poor and entertainment levels worse. That's undeniable but could anybody have done much different?

Had a few of those players who left not gone, had the replacements been fit and available, had there been fewer injuries, had the whole club not been galloping towards a cliff-edge then it would in all likelihood have been entirely different.

Sturrock's incredible first spell was tainted by the manner of his departure to Southampton and the legacy more or less destroyed by what happened second time around but I don't think the responsibility for his second spell failing so badly lies exclusively at his door. Sometimes shit just happens and little can be done about it.

Coxside_Green wrote:

Reid inherited a bunch of disinterested players stuck in Plymouth, concerned whether they were gonna get paid or not.

Also the day before the first match of the season kicked off he had 9 players at his disposal, he was a decent bloke who helped keep the club afloat, paying the gas bill for one, and no one would have made a go of it at hat time, same could be said of Fletcher but he was totally out of his depth. The management at board level has been the worst this lub has ever seen in he last decade.

I agree with that. Sturrock's hand was bad but Reid had no cards at all.

As you say: it was an impossible task for anybody.

We're damned lucky we got away with it.

That said for all the stick Fletcher is getting it was he who worked the miracle.

A trick repeated by Sheridan the season after.

So that's Sturrock, Mariner, Reid and Fletcher who all failed (and now Sheridan is struggling). As you say (again) the focus has to be on the tier above the playing staff because the playing staff have nearly all been changed - and most of them more than once.

fletcher and marnier hands down,

Greenskin wrote:

You haven't lived bhey.Ufton completely fecked Argyle up back in the 1960's,selling good players on the cheap and bringing in crap replacements.Mind you,how much of that was induced by the useless board is a matter for speculation but he was awful on the face of it,decent chap but awful,far worse than Sturrock mk2 .

I'm sure I've told this story before Derek Ufton was a fine chap, when he caught me up one of his apple trees in his back garden in Dunstone Road he left me off with a very gentle telling off. A proper gent...but a cricketer really, not a football manager.

I would have Luggy back immediately in the capacity of chief scout. There no doubt in my mind he would find some class lower league players at bargain prices. The only drawback with it in my view is that Sheridan doesn't seem to have the ability to nurture or give our youngsters a chance to prove themselves.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I agree with that. Sturrock's hand was bad but Reid had no cards at all.

As you say: it was an impossible task for anybody.

We're damned lucky we got away with it.

That said for all the stick Fletcher is getting it was he who worked the miracle.

A trick repeated by Sheridan the season after.

So that's Sturrock, Mariner, Reid and Fletcher who all failed (and now Sheridan is struggling). As you say (again) the focus has to be on the tier above the playing staff because the playing staff have nearly all been changed - and most of them more than once.

What about the tier above the management staff?

Kevin Hodges was pretty dire but every now and again we could still put out a top drawer performance.
Fletcher sides were painful to watch....pure and simple, bored into submission.

If clueless remained in charge instead of being sacked, Argyle would have finished bottom of the league by ten points, Sheridan to his credit saved the club from non league football.

stephensdad wrote:

I would have Luggy back immediately in the capacity of chief scout. There no doubt in my mind he would find some class lower league players at bargain prices. The only drawback with it in my view is that Sheridan doesn't seem to have the ability to nurture or give our youngsters a chance to prove themselves.

Luggy isnt much better in terms if youngsters in fairness

Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Mccormick, Adams, Connolly and Morrison at Swindon immediately spring to mind.

stephensdad wrote:

Noone, Bolasie, Mason, Mccormick, Adams, Connolly and Morrison at Swindon immediately spring to mind.

and they went on to be better players long after he left or they left. He was no fergie

I suggested chief scout. Whatever way you look at it, Luggy give them all their chance and none cost a penny or if so peanuts. Jason Puncheon cost money and I wonder if Luggy signed Charlie Austin?

Paul Sturrock will always be a great manager in my book, like Dave Smith tony waiters neil warnock Tony Pulis Ian Holloway. The rest varying degrees of shite, clueless, being red on the Shiteometer.

stephensdad wrote:

I suggested chief scout. Whatever way you look at it, Luggy give them all their chance and none cost a penny or if so peanuts. Jason Puncheon cost money and I wonder if Luggy signed Charlie Austin?

again they all moved on and did far better under managers that actually played them. Besides Having luggy back in any role would under mime any current manager not just sheridan and be a constant thorn in the side of wanting to do thing their way and having the fans chant for luggy. Williamson, Pulis and holloway had it and he wasnt even there

Haven't seen Mike Kelly mentioned here. I saw my first Argyle games when he was in charge & from memory he wasn't a success & got relegated to the third tier.
The ironic thing is that there was a young Lennie Lawrence on the coaching staff at the time

It's worth remembering that Reid actually kept us in L1 on the pitch - it was only the points deduction that took us down.

Greenskin wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I agree with that. Sturrock's hand was bad but Reid had no cards at all.

As you say: it was an impossible task for anybody.

We're damned lucky we got away with it.

That said for all the stick Fletcher is getting it was he who worked the miracle.

A trick repeated by Sheridan the season after.

So that's Sturrock, Mariner, Reid and Fletcher who all failed (and now Sheridan is struggling). As you say (again) the focus has to be on the tier above the playing staff because the playing staff have nearly all been changed - and most of them more than once.

What about the tier above the management staff?

They were who I meant. I included the manager, coaches etc in the "playing staff". I should have been more explicit.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

If clueless remained in charge instead of being sacked, Argyle would have finished bottom of the league by ten points, Sheridan to his credit saved the club from non league football.

Fletcher did exactly the same the year before.

Cornish Chris wrote:

It's worth remembering that Reid actually kept us in L1 on the pitch - it was only the points deduction that took us down.

no he didnt if he has of got us off to a better start we probably would have stayed up by the skin of our teeth but as i say he wasnt that good with the talent he had before the firesales and he was left with Fallon. Him not signing a loan striker in january also played a huge part in our continued decline as Mason wasnt scoring and Fallon was shite,

Shite Fallon is still scoring regularly in league 1.