Is Nathan Thomas being unfairly treated?

Jason Banton is clearly having a rough time. Contributing very little to our attacks, poor crosses, too scared to dribble. Holding shape and putting the effort I suppose, but even Aaron Bentley could do that. I don't really see it as a cause for celebration.

Meanwhile we have this fearless young whippet in the ranks, who earned a contract extension off the back of his effective substitute displays last season.

In the previous 6 months, Thomas came on for cameos against Mansfield at home and Portsmouth away, whilst shifting him from LWB to a prowling left winger at Newport away scared them to death. In that Newport game I thought Thomas was breathtakingly good in the last 30 minutes, and I hadn't seen a player go at his defender giving them absolutely zero respect like that for years. At Portsmouth he played again in the same spirit, and again caused problems. We rescued a point, with all activity coming down his left channel towards the end of the match.

Currently we have Banton on the left wing, who seems terrified of defenders, runs down an alley, turns around and goes back to give it to Blizzard. That epitomised his performance against Luton on Saturday.

For this reason I really don't understand why Thomas isn't being tried - if not starting, then even as a last 25 minute sub. He has changed more than one or two games with his unique style of play. Banton, to almost everyone watching, is clearly out of sorts.

But  most strange is Sheridan now using the media to belittle Thomas. It is all well and good using the stick as a motivational tactic, but when you are not giving the player(s) you are slagging off any chance to prove themselves, then it strikes as bullying and intimidation to me.

He said something about the younger players needing a kick up the arse in pre-season, but never mentioned names. GreenSam thought JS was alluding to Harvey amongst others, but Harvey has played and shined already this season. He was given the start in the Exeter derby, and more than repaid the faith with his performance.

However on Friday Sheridan chose to attack Thomas individually.

Sheridan told Herald Sport: “Nathan plays on the left and Alex plays on the right so I don’t think there is a problem there.

“Nathan has got to buckle down and get on with his game.

“It’s no good showing me flashes for five or 10 minutes. There is your answer. That is how I feel about him.”

“I look at how he works to get back into the position,” said the Pilgrims’ boss.

“He’s a young kid and hasn’t played first team football anywhere else. We believe in him a lot here and try to help him a lot, but it’s down to him.”

Thomas has sparkled on some of his substitute appearances and that has led to calls from fans for him to start matches.

But Sheridan said: “Everyone has got an opinion on whether he should be in the side. I don’t think he should be in the side at this moment in time.”


Is this a case of Thomas being a bit of an argumentative, egotistical, big time charlie behind the scenes? Is Sheridan being blinded in his judgement by off field matters? Or is he a professional footballer and a professional manager who knows things about the game I never will, and I should put down the keyboard and shut up.

From my perspective, we have hardly an outlet at all on our left hand side, with McHugh being so defensive, Banton being so ineffective - that the situation is crying out for a bit of a change from someone with a track record of delivering from the bench.

To pick on Thomas personally (as opposed to the 13/14 players that were involved) and not give him the chance to prove himself - it really does smack to me of poor management. What or how is Thomas supposed to prove/improve when he has no opportunity to do it? What is slagging him off and ignoring him in matches likely to do for a young man's confidence/mentality, whose bright, fearless and aggressive spark was a key asset for the team last season?

So in a nutshell, stop being a miserable bastard Shez, and give him 25 minutes will you.

Come on ejh, first it was the decision to release Young that you couldn't get over, now you've got an issue with Thomas not being played. Sheridan works with the players at close hand and is paid to make these tough decisions and I'm willing to trust his judgment, aren't you ?

I think this is another classic example as to why its not wise not to have regular reserve team football as players like Thomas dont have a platform to show anything.

@Anti - Do I have to back Sheridan 100% in everything he does and decides? We are supporters and entitled to our own opinions surely. I wouldn't have started this thread if he hadn't picked on Thomas by name before the Luton match, and then not included him whatsoever. Why on earth do that? It makes no sense to me, and smacks of a personal issue rather than a footballing one.

How frustrating must it be for your boss to publically say you are not really very good, criticism your colleagues and customers are aware of, then not give you any chance at all to prove him wrong. Or to put right where he says you are going wrong. Obviously by not giving Thomas a chance, he is hardly saying it to get a performance out of him. Meanwhile McHugh and Banton who are playing, and who have been having genuinely poor performances, are not sidelined for comment at all.

As I say Thomas played his part last season, he was a great option to have on the bench, I just hope the public criticism and the snubbing doesn't affect his confidence and mentality.

As for Luke Young, his three assists in a 3-1 win away at Lincoln, and two goals and assist in a 4-0 win v Nuneaton, is not really proving our decision to let him go a terrific one right now. He is streets ahead in the poll for Torquay's player of the month, and they are unbeaten in 6.

You could say exactly the same about Smalley-he was pushed down the pecking order by Bray's brief appearance on Saturday,so why pick out Thomas in particular? Norburn was left out altogether as well in spite of playing pretty well in the games that i've seen him-tough shit,all part of being in a squad,horses for courses and all that.Didn't Shez play a bit of a double bluff last season when he slagged him off in the press and then said he was always going to pick him,may have been for Newport away? It'll be interesting to see the team for Saturday and see if the same situation arises.Can't really comment on Thomas with any great knowledge,he's done well in some of the cameo appearances at HP but that is totally different to starting a match when the opposition are at the same fatigue levels and the game has not yet opened up.He was atrocious in the Oxford game las year but to be fair he was certainly not alone in that respect.Don't really know,can't see any manager jeopardising his own career by not picking someone who he thinks would be a consistent asset in any given position just because he doesn't like him,maybe Thomas has flaws in his game that outweigh his qualities.If he is arrogant or egotistical,then he's hardly likely to be affected by the manager chucking some printers ink at him but i guess we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes-one thing is for sure,managers have great power over a players career,so Thomas would be well advised to knuckle down and do as the manager bids,otherwise he could be doing something else for a living in future.

ejh wrote:

@Anti - Do I have to back Sheridan 100% in everything he does and decides? We are supporters and entitled to our own opinions surely. I wouldn't have started this thread if he hadn't picked on Thomas by name before the Luton match, and then not included him whatsoever. Why on earth do that? It makes no sense to me, and smacks of a personal issue rather than a footballing one.

How frustrating must it be for your boss to publically say you are not really very good, criticism your colleagues and customers are aware of, then not give you any chance at all to prove him wrong. Or to put right where he says you are going wrong. Obviously by not giving Thomas a chance, he is hardly saying it to get a performance out of him. Meanwhile McHugh and Banton who are playing, and who have been having genuinely poor performances, are not sidelined for comment at all.

As I say Thomas played his part last season, he was a great option to have on the bench, I just hope the public criticism and the snubbing doesn't affect his confidence and mentality.

As for Luke Young, his three assists in a 3-1 win away at Lincoln, and two goals and assist in a 4-0 win v Nuneaton, is not really proving our decision to let him go a terrific one right now. He is streets ahead in the poll for Torquay's player of the month, and they are unbeaten in 6.

Indeed.In the Conference.

There's a few things that don't add up. Why offer him a new contract and then bring in another

untried winger with the season only a month old? Why slate him in the press? Why does he only

get 5 to 10 minutes on as a sub. I noticed that in 50% of his cameo performances we actually

score when he's on the pitch. Is it because he can't defend as he proved when Sheridan picked

him at left wing back last season. Or is he the easy/cheap option to leave out. After all, Sheridan

would have some explaining to do if he had Banton on the bench and selected Thomas. I'm

guessing one would earn two or three times more than the other. Or was it Sheridan knew

Thomas was talented but was scared to release him in case he proved a success elsewhere.

Sheridan's in a hole now. Bray's gone back and he's now left with a dissatisfied winger. The Herald

article was poor management and he should have known better.

Greenskin wrote:

Indeed.In the Conference.

As opposed to the brilliant defences we play against now?

Do you think Blizzard, Cox or Norburn drop into the Conference and produce form like that? I am extremely sceptical about that. 2 goals and 4 assists in two games. People are still on the come down from Blizzard scoring one goal for us!

Against a team that was non league for long enough

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

There's a few things that don't add up. Why offer him a new contract and then bring in another

untried winger with the season only a month old? Why slate him in the press? Why does he only

get 5 to 10 minutes on as a sub. I noticed that in 50% of his cameo performances we actually

score when he's on the pitch. Is it because he can't defend as he proved when Sheridan picked

him at left wing back last season. Or is he the easy/cheap option to leave out. After all, Sheridan

would have some explaining to do if he had Banton on the bench and selected Thomas. I'm

guessing one would earn two or three times more than the other. Or was it Sheridan knew

Thomas was talented but was scared to release him in case he proved a success elsewhere.

Sheridan's in a hole now. Bray's gone back and he's now left with a dissatisfied winger. The Herald

article was poor management and he should have known better.

Totally agree, and well said.

Does anyone genuinely believe this idea that Thomas isn't good enough?

When he's on that left wing for us, attacks happen, the momentum of a match builds in our favour. After Thomas runs at defenders and sends them into blind panic, Argyle keep getting him the ball and watch him go to work again.

I know he's no Antonio Valencia in terms of protection but he hardly bombs off up front without a care in the world?

If we don't play him with such an underwhelming left hand side, injuries and no back up wingers, what was the point in signing him?

Thomas is young and Sheridan obviously sees something in him to give him a new contract. He's not adverse to making hard decisions as we witnessed when he let Luke Young go. Contrary to the opinion of some fans Sheridan obviously thinks Banton is his best option at the moment. There is also Smalley in the equation.

Sheridan's comments in the paper just said to me that Thomas needs to be more consistent over a longer period in games to be considered for starting places or longer spells as a sub. Remember Sheridan is watching him in training all the time. We're not!

@ejit, No you don't have to give 100% backing to Sheridan and yes as a supporter of the club of course you are entitled to an opinion. As for Thomas being 'picked on' by Sheridan I've already stated I trust his judgment on how best to deal with the players, whether that be slagging them off in the press and then not picking them, not talking to them for six months, putting a loving arm around their shoulder to massage a needy ego or locking a player in the boot of his car for 12 hours while wining and dining said players missus before giving her a good seeing too. He'll live or die by his decisions on and off the pitch with results obviously being the biggest factor and leaving a player out for something other than footballing reasons(what you might call a personal grudge) isn't something Sheridan would do imo, he seems to be a bigger man than that.

Regarding your ongoing love affair with Luke Young, it's admirable though a little strange, yes he's doing well at a lesser club surrounded by lesser players and in a lesser league but at Argyle he just didn't cut the mustard, inconsistent and lightweight while showing great promise and class at times but not often enough to earn a new contract in my(and John's opinion ) I wish him every success for the future though.

ejh wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

There's a few things that don't add up. Why offer him a new contract and then bring in another

untried winger with the season only a month old? Why slate him in the press? Why does he only

get 5 to 10 minutes on as a sub. I noticed that in 50% of his cameo performances we actually

score when he's on the pitch. Is it because he can't defend as he proved when Sheridan picked

him at left wing back last season. Or is he the easy/cheap option to leave out. After all, Sheridan

would have some explaining to do if he had Banton on the bench and selected Thomas. I'm

guessing one would earn two or three times more than the other. Or was it Sheridan knew

Thomas was talented but was scared to release him in case he proved a success elsewhere.

Sheridan's in a hole now. Bray's gone back and he's now left with a dissatisfied winger. The Herald

article was poor management and he should have known better.

Totally agree, and well said.

Does anyone genuinely believe this idea that Thomas isn't good enough?

When he's on that left wing for us, attacks happen, the momentum of a match builds in our favour. After Thomas runs at defenders and sends them into blind panic, Argyle keep getting him the ball and watch him go to work again.

I know he's no Antonio Valencia in terms of protection but he hardly bombs off up front without a care in the world?

If we don't play him with such an underwhelming left hand side, injuries and no back up wingers, what was the point in signing him?

The only man that matters does, clearly

Maybe you should think about becoming a football manager ejh, your ability to judge a players attributes is mighty impressive !!

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AstiSpumante wrote:

ejh wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

There's a few things that don't add up. Why offer him a new contract and then bring in another

untried winger with the season only a month old? Why slate him in the press? Why does he only

get 5 to 10 minutes on as a sub. I noticed that in 50% of his cameo performances we actually

score when he's on the pitch. Is it because he can't defend as he proved when Sheridan picked

him at left wing back last season. Or is he the easy/cheap option to leave out. After all, Sheridan

would have some explaining to do if he had Banton on the bench and selected Thomas. I'm

guessing one would earn two or three times more than the other. Or was it Sheridan knew

Thomas was talented but was scared to release him in case he proved a success elsewhere.

Sheridan's in a hole now. Bray's gone back and he's now left with a dissatisfied winger. The Herald

article was poor management and he should have known better.

Totally agree, and well said.

Does anyone genuinely believe this idea that Thomas isn't good enough?

When he's on that left wing for us, attacks happen, the momentum of a match builds in our favour. After Thomas runs at defenders and sends them into blind panic, Argyle keep getting him the ball and watch him go to work again.

I know he's no Antonio Valencia in terms of protection but he hardly bombs off up front without a care in the world?

If we don't play him with such an underwhelming left hand side, injuries and no back up wingers, what was the point in signing him?

The only man that matters does, clearly

Maybe you should think about becoming a football manager ejh, your ability to judge a players attributes is mighty impressive !!

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Another assist for Young tonight. I'm with you on that one ejh though not so much on Thomas.

Banton helps the full-back out, something that doesn't come easily to Thomas. No doubt there are personalities involved in the equation too.

Young performs well in the Conference, so it's automatically an error by Shez to release him from a club that has aspirations of pushing on towards promotion to league 1, yeah?

Can people not see the obvious flaw in that argument?

Bottom line is that Sheridan is at Argyle making decisions, and he obviously didn't fancy Young to do what he wanted. Granted, probably 95% of Argyle fans (myself included) were surprised he released him, and if he were still playing at the same level and getting all the plaudits Shez may have appeared to have an eggy face. But he's in the Conference.

If you want a parallel argument, it would appear a far far sillier move for Yeovil to release Rueben Reid, but Johnson's the gaffer and he no doubt has his own reasons.

Football managers, whadda they know eh?

Czarcasm wrote:

Young performs well in the Conference, so it's automatically an error by Shez to release him from a club that has aspirations of pushing on towards promotion to league 1, yeah?

Can people not see the obvious flaw in that argument?

If you look, I didn't even bring that up. Mr Spumante did, to which I couldn't help but point out that Luke is in irresistible form and hardly supports his belief that Sheridan's idea to offload him was a great one. The great irony is that a 21 year old doing what Luke Young is in the Conference currently is the kind of scouting assignment that should be landing on Sheridan's desk now and recommending him to sign. So not really your best example of a Sheridan knows better than supporters story Mr Spumante. If you wanted to make that point, I'd say perservering with Reid as his number 9 (when Morgan looked in better form at the start of last season) and sticking by Reid when he wasn't scoring in 10 - 15 games is a far better example of Sheridan's wisdom.

As for calling me an eejit, and all the other kind of personal stuff, that's just not very nice.

And does your view that Sheridan knows best, and is beyond question in his position, extend to other senior positions at the football club? What about Rick Cowdery, do we agree he has been working in football communications for a lifetime, therefore do the club twitter account and website really warrant being slagged off? If it's good enough in Cowdery's eyes, shouldn't it be good enough for everyone else? Then there's Starnes, and experienced Chief Executive of football clubs. Knows infintely more about running a club, so don't hassle him about cheerleaders, or segregation, because he knows best, and at the end of the day what do any of you know? And of course James Brent the chairman is never wrong whilst being a chairman, HHP's ambitious plans will transform the club, the 3,800 capacity stand is just great, an ice rink right behind the stand is just great, and we can all agree on that.



Spumante - If bringing a manager's decision into question is really that heretical in your opinion, and upsets you dearly, are you not better off on Pasoti, where criticism will get edited out so as to not upset anybody?

Bringing the post back on topic, I am not slagging Sheridan off. I'm not reacting to a defeat and twisting the knife in Sheridan, because we have had two decent wins. This purely relates to one player that Sheridan seems to be isolating and not getting the best out of. The way that Sheridan decided to speak about Thomas and criticise him pre-match against Luton, especially considering Shez never used him (despite Banton being poor, Bray being injured) seemed to have a bitter edge to it. I suppose my concern is that if you are going to slam your individual young players in the media, you'd at least expect them to have a chance on the pitch to see a reaction. Instead it seems a justification of why he doesn't like him and won't be playing him, as opposed to any brilliant psychological ruse.

Czarcasm wrote:

Young performs well in the Conference, so it's automatically an error by Shez to release him from a club that has aspirations of pushing on towards promotion to league 1, yeah?

Can people not see the obvious flaw in that argument?

Bottom line is that Sheridan is at Argyle making decisions, and he obviously didn't fancy Young to do what he wanted. Granted, probably 95% of Argyle fans (myself included) were surprised he released him, and if he were still playing at the same level and getting all the plaudits Shez may have appeared to have an eggy face. But he's in the Conference.

If you want a parallel argument, it would appear a far far sillier move for Yeovil to release Rueben Reid, but Johnson's the gaffer and he no doubt has his own reasons.

Football managers, whadda they know eh?

Given that Reuben is scoring well in League Two, doesn't that emphasise Gary Johnson's point that Reid was not cut out for League One?

Certainly not an opinion I'd agree with, but that is the rationale we are using to suggest Luke Young belongs in non league football.

I don't recall calling you an idiot.  

Or were you just quoting me but replying to Asti?

P.S. I wouldn't describe you as an idiot. Long-winded, but no not an idiot.

It's not Asti Czar, It's @Anti, Mr Spumante or just plain old Spumante.

I didn't call you an eejit, I called you an @ejit, a small but subtle difference and in response to your @Anti comment but I suppose the eyes are tuned to see what they want to see.

As for "all the other kind of personal stuff, that's just not very nice" ...........I've either missed something or you're very easily offended "are you not better off on Pasoti, where criticism will get edited out so as to not upset anybody?"

Any idea why he was dropped this time?

Feel really sorry for the kid, it looks like no matter what he proves his face will never fit under Sheridan.

I mentioned before about Sheridan failing Luke Young, and he is progressively doing the same with Banton and Thomas.

Sheridan's record of getting the best out of flair players with natural talent is a cause for concern.

I genuinely believe another manager could have turned those three into Championship/Premiership players given time. Yet Sheridan kicked one out the door, keeps another in reserves, and has totally broken the aggressive instincts of the other.

The best thing Luke Young did was leave Argyle and forget what John Sheridan thinks - I really hope Thomas doesn't come to the same conclusion. And you really can't blame him if he does.

Drop a league with Young, get 40+ games, a hatful of goals and assists, rave reviews, and scouts coming to watch you play. Or watch stale performances at Home Park by players with a fraction of your talent, whilst consigned to the bench, and ignored when (through injury and forced substitution) you contribute something positive.

ejh wrote:

Any idea why he was dropped this time?

Feel really sorry for the kid, it looks like no matter what he proves his face will never fit under Sheridan.

I mentioned before about Sheridan failing Luke Young, and he is progressively doing the same with Banton and Thomas.

Sheridan's record of getting the best out of flair players with natural talent is a cause for concern.

I genuinely believe another manager could have turned those three into Championship/Premiership players given time. Yet Sheridan kicked one out the door, keeps another in reserves, and has totally broken the aggressive instincts of the other.

The best thing Luke Young did was leave Argyle and forget what John Sheridan thinks - I really hope Thomas doesn't come to the same conclusion. And you really can't blame him if he does.

Drop a league with Young, get 40+ games, a hatful of goals and assists, rave reviews, and scouts coming to watch you play. Or watch stale performances at Home Park by players with a fraction of your talent, whilst consigned to the bench, and ignored when (through injury and forced substitution) you contribute something positive.

apparently he doesnt fufil defensive duties if brents herald is to be believed

But if we'd swopped say Smalley for Thomas on 70 minutes we could have got the second goal or we could have shipped one and lost two points, Sheridan won the game yesterday, maybe your point would have more relevance if we'd drawn or lost?
As for Banton, he's had enough chances he just doesn't deliver, is that Shezes fault or Bantons?

Iggy wrote:

But if we'd swopped say Smalley for Thomas on 70 minutes we could have got the second goal or we could have shipped one and lost two points, Sheridan won the game yesterday, maybe your point would have more relevance if we'd drawn or lost?
As for Banton, he's had enough chances he just doesn't deliver, is that Shezes fault or Bantons?

Sheridan is coaching them every week - but what exactly is he coaching?

How to be defensive and screen a full back, slog your guts out defending etc.

OR running at defenders,  skinning full backs, getting good crosses in, and shots on target?

Banton seems to be a totally different player to the young and aggressive young firebrand who first came to the club, and single handedly delivered the goals that won us the points that kept us up. His game now and then have virtually no parallels, and certainly not for the better is it?

Sheridan might get away with screwing up Banton, if he'd have done a good job with any of our other young wide players, but he is messing up Thomas's potential, failed with Luke Young, and currently has a 6' 4" target man on the left wing who offers nothing much except flicking on goal kicks. Not exactly the free flowing, incisive aggressive football Sheridan had a reputation for at Chesterfield.

Given that I have been whinging about Thomas for a while, it took an injury to Reuben for Thomas to have an opportunity. He played well, changed the game, scored. Sheridan felt obliged to give him another opportunity, whereby Thomas and the whole Argyle team had a poor performance. Some argue Thomas was one of few bright sparks in Argyle's dismal day. Yet it is only Thomas who gets the chop, the others all retain their places? For me it is another example of Sheridan unfairly picking on Thomas, seeing something wrong with him the fans can't see. Fair enough you see the 3 points as a gauge of Sheridan's wisdom - plenty of the fans regard Argyle's flat and stale performance as Sheridan being out of his depth. But if it is points that matters, then Sheridan perhaps need to be more accountable when we don't fluke wins - and for my money we get what we deserve more often than we fluke points we didn't.

The next step for Sheridan is deserving to win most of the time, and not only some of the time - and then he might prove he knows more about tactics and player management than he gets the credit for.

All conjecture though tbh.

ejh wrote:

Iggy wrote:

But if we'd swopped say Smalley for Thomas on 70 minutes we could have got the second goal or we could have shipped one and lost two points, Sheridan won the game yesterday, maybe your point would have more relevance if we'd drawn or lost?
As for Banton, he's had enough chances he just doesn't deliver, is that Shezes fault or Bantons?

Sheridan is coaching them every week - but what exactly is he coaching?

How to be defensive and screen a full back, slog your guts out defending etc.

OR running at defenders,  skinning full backs, getting good crosses in, and shots on target?

Banton seems to be a totally different player to the young and aggressive young firebrand who first came to the club, and single handedly delivered the goals that won us the points that kept us up. His game now and then have virtually no parallels, and certainly not for the better is it?

Sheridan might get away with screwing up Banton, if he'd have done a good job with any of our other young wide players, but he is messing up Thomas's potential, failed with Luke Young, and currently has a 6' 4" target man on the left wing who offers nothing much except flicking on goal kicks.

How do you know that Banton wasn't fecked up in his spell at MKD-did he not sustain some sort of serious injury when he was there?