The COCup match thread

Angry wrote:

fair play to the side to come back and almost nick it against a good side in orient.

But its the same old story Angry..the plucky losers.
Last year it was Birmingham, the year before Burnley and now Orient.
Is there a club in England that has a worse record then us in the League Cup ?
What usually happens is that in the next game, and the one after that  repeat x3  is that we get shit results in the league games.
I refuse to give credit to a losing side.

Next season they should forfeit this competition imho.

Punchdrunk wrote:

I dont think that there is any other support base in the league that has become so institutionally indoctrinated in being defeated.

It's being so negative that keeps you going.......you must of been pleased when Banton missed that fifth penalty.

I see you've been stirring it up with sensible again.....you just can't leave him alone can you, having a dig on not606.....well if it makes you happy......two plusses for you there then Argyle losing and another dig at sensible......while your bashing sensible your leaving me alone.....I must be thankful for small mercies.

Forget the first 45 and it was a superb performance, especially in extra time.

The subs, Harvey, Allen and Morgan were all outstanding.

The shoot out was actually a really good one, all the spot kicks were well taken.

Credit to the Orient players for applauding our fans at full time.

Gawd........... our hardcore support is so needy. Can't wait for the photos. Same old wannabe faces.........'The fans applaud the players'......... 'The players applaud the fans'........... 'Orient applaud our fans, respect' ...............Jesus wept !

Terrific performance from the 2nd half till the end and too lose on penalties was very harsh - we very nearly won the game. Reid was outstanding, as was Nelson and Cox. Lots of positives to take into Saturday and suddenly feeling alot more excited for the season after the shambles in Cambridge. COYG

Wow, wow, wow, wow and wow again. That was a truly bizarre football match. Amongst the strangest games I think I've ever seen in more ways than one. It was absolutely nothing if not exhilarating and entertaining. There won't be many matches where I come out of it feeling more emotionally drained and there won't be many matches with more talking points to mention after the game. There was enough I saw to make me livid and there was also enough I saw to make me incredibly positive. I just REALLY don't know what to make of it.

By the way, when have we ever had a referee who was as much as a blatant homer as that one was? I particularly enjoyed the chant in the Devonport of 'we only get good refs'. They say that things even themselves out in football. Well the amount of contentious decisions that that referee gave to us is enough to even out a whole season of biased refereeing against us. Let's just hope we haven't used up all our good luck in that regard. Every Argyle handball was ignored, every possible Orient discretion was punished. They had the most clear and blatant penalty denied right at the end of normal time. It was either McHugh or O'Connor (I think it was McHugh, correct me if I'm wrong) who clearly knocked their player right away from the ball where their man could have got to it. In spite of our 'valiant losers' reputation, Orient should really have had that penalty and they'd probably have scored it. Also, he didn't play a clear advantage in the first half of extra time where Orient could easily have slipped their man through and scored. That all said, we don't get many homers so I certainly won't complain about it.

It was indisputably a game of three thirds in terms of the way we played. The first third was from kick-off until when Reid equalised in the 64th minute to make it 2-2. In that division of time (which amounted to about 50% of the game) we were so absolutely atrocious that Orient could and should have built up a far bigger lead than the slender lead they did. Reid's goal on the stroke of half-time was just about the only shot we had in that first half. It was in fact, the only time we got the ball into their penalty area for about 35 minutes. The vast majority of Argyle heads (bar 3 or 4) seemed to be drooping against the floor with a demeanour and body language that absolutely stinked of defeatism. We were second to everything and they had too much time on the ball. Even at 1-2 down, we weren't very good. The equaliser however, breathed new life into us and triggered the beginning of what I'd define to be the second third in the game. In this, we were pretty good as normal time went on and we were comfortably the better time (in spite of Orient being denied a clear penalty). On the whole though, we played some good, attacking football with (yeah, you really are reading this right) some very good and proactive movement off the ball during this period. Heads that were drooping began to perk up and we began to put Orient on the back foot. Their third goal came very much against the run of play.

As we kicked off, we put Harvey on for Norburn and this was where what I'd define at the 'third phase' started. This was the last 20 minutes of extra time where we absolutely annihilated them. It was the absolute Alamo the way we went forward in those last 20. Almost like watching Germany against Brazil at the World Cup but with only one goal. In that phase we hit the woodwork once, skimmed the post once, forced their keeper into three good saves and we scored. If we see a twenty minute passage of play as good as that again this season then we'll have done well. How it was the same team that played at Cambridge and played the first half today is beyond me. This by the way is the best argument you'll ever get against the 'Tyler Harvey has no impact' crew. When the other ten players are all playing like crap and not moving at all, he's admittedly not the type of player to make something out of thin air. But when he's playing with a team who have their peckers up, he's a dynamic, intelligent modern trequarista who (since the departure of Luke Young) has got the best passing range out of anyone in our squad. He was in my view the man most responsible for notching the performance levels up when he replaced the ineffectual Norburn. We were desperately unlucky not to score during that phase but I suppose we've only got our own finishing to blame.

Luke went the right way for a good few of the penalties but he's only ever been a truly fantastic shot stopper when he's either one on one in open play (so he can narrow the angle) or facing a high reflex save. Getting down to his side hasn't really been his forte since coming back to Argyle. In terms of the taking of our penalties, it was a mixed bag, even in spite of the two misses. Hartley, Harvey and Alessandra never looked like missing. Morgan and Allen came perilously close and both were clearly nervous.

Positives:
-McHugh the attacker and persona: McHugh didn't have a very good game today. Let's not mince words. I'll come onto that later. But what he did show was the soundest distribution I've seen from a defender in quite some time. His diagonal balls up the pitch were more accurate in one half than Blanchard's were in a season. He also put in two (count 'em!) good crosses which again is probably more than Blanchard did in a season. Not to mention his goal. Also, as gutted as I was for Argyle in general at full-time there was a part of me that felt despondent for him personally. You could just see how much he wanted it by the way he collapsed onto the pitch after missing his penalty. If he was in tears, I wouldn't be shocked and it's wonderful to see players who want to win for us as much as that. Move him the hell away from left-back and I think he'll be a fans favourite.
-River Allen: Another star turn and an incredibly gusty performance from a debutant. Kept possession very well and good a good mind for moving into the right position. Must have taken some nerves to take the first penalty on a debut too and he duly put it away. Top marks for the way that he was the first man over to McHugh at full time. You can see why he was the captain of the youth team: natural leadership. If I'm being picky, perhaps he was channeling the spirit of Hourihane 11/12 too much and going for the simple ball when there was a better pass on. But that's only if I'm being picky.
-Tyler Harvey: enough said.
-Reid: Again, what's left to say. He played them almost single handedly in the first half and he scored two very good goals. If only he had off the ball movement in the same way as Lavery, then he'd be playing for a Championship club now. My MOTM for sure. Sneaky feeling we may have won if he'd stayed on but benefit of the doubt, he was shattered.
-Cox: Was in a more advanced role than usual but did very well in it. Was (Reid aside) the only one who came out of the first half with any real credit due to his constant pressing of whoever has the ball. Eye for a nifty pass too.
-Morgan. The guy can't control a football for toffee but lord he's a trier. Games like this are when I don't mind seeing him be used. Against tired legs, sticking his foot in there and trying to force people into mistakes. Did his job.
- John Sheridan. I don't particularly like Sheridan much more than Cobi and his ilk do but I'll always give credit where it's due. Today he completely defied his usual weakness of being a manager who cannot change a game. Harvey and Allen were both inspired subs and for once, we came from behind and didn't lose (in normal time).

Negatives:
-O'Connor's passing. Generally I thought he got stuck in more than most in the early stages and I saw enough there to think that he could well be a decent player for us but crikey his distribution was woeful. I'd hate to see the stats for it- almost every pass seemed to go awry. That said, he was comfortably our best defensive player off the ball by about a million miles so he still gets a decent mark from me.
-McHugh the left-back....and Peter Hartley. Sorry, I've praised McHugh in some aspects but these two were like the chuckle brothers today. McHugh was good when he did get forward but he was so slow getting back that Hartley didn't know whether to cover him or not. Hartley also looked WAAAY too hesitant as someone who's meant to be a dominant centre-back. If he wasn't too high up, he was too deep but he was very rarely in the right place. Let his man away from him countless times. If he plays like that again, then we should drop him and move McHugh inside to see if he can get some of those good diags away from centre-back. Because in spite of his crossing ability, he cannot play left-back for much longer. Too slow and he's WAY too uncomfortable with a tricky winger. Didn't show him inside enough- he was far too timid and just kept on letting his man advance closer towards the penalty area without making a decent attempt to stop him. It's a different skill set needed to play centrally and I think he might have it.
Nelson on crosses: Nelse has developed into a very good player for us but like Hartley, let his man away on crosses too often.
Mellor- Oh dear. Can only assume it was an off day. Almost every single thing that he tried went tits up especially before the last 20 minutes. Don't think for a second that he meant his 'assist' for McHugh's goal either :whistle:
Norburn- Got a decent first touch on him but he didn't even come CLOSE to imposing himself on the game at any point. Anonymous for most of it- off the ball work was non-existant. It was notable how much better we were without him. For someone billed as an idiot savant, we saw less of the savant and more of the idiot.
-The minority (and I stress, it was a very small minority) of those in the Devonport End who booed Morgan onto the pitch before he could kick a ball. Really, lads?

Otherwise, Banton started off brightly but as usual ran out of ideas when Orient decided to double mark him. Was tired at the end and visibly very nervous when it came to taking the penalty. Lewi was the opposite. Awful at the start and grew into the game as the team did. Had a stunning extra time and came very close to scoring more than once. Some dynamic runs with the ball that he's famed for but Sheridan is right: he does take far too many touches with it. Out of ten:

-McCormick 7.
-Mellor 2.
-Nelson 5.
-Hartley 3.
-McHugh 5.
-O'Connor 6.
-Cox 7.
-Norburn 4.
-Banton 6.
-Alessandra 6.
-Reid 8 MOTM.
-Morgan 7.
-Harvey 8.
-Allen 7.

A game where a lot of lessons can be learnt. Two young players both came on and left a very good impression. If we play like we did after 2-2 for the whole season, promotion beckons. If we play like we did before 2-1 for the whole season, relegation beckons. On the whole, a genuinely crazy game of football where you had no idea what was coming next. A killer of a sucker punch at the end but a match in which good team spirit was evident and (during our good spell) the team showed more off the ball cohesion and awareness of where their teammates were than I've seen in some while. Many positives, many negatives...but more positives. Now PLEASE let's build on that momentum for Saturday. Please. Let's start Harvey deep and let's drop at least one of today's under-performers as a lesson that nobody's place is safe. On the whole though, a well done is deserved to Sheridan and the team for that one. If ever a game got you your money's worth from the ticket price, it was that one. Bring on Saturday.

can you type all that out again please ?   

Damn fine report Sam.

Cheers Alan.

Elias- yes, that one was rather obnoxiously long even for me wasn't it. The precis:

-We started shit
-We got decent
-We ended amazingly
-Harvey and Allen went some way towards making Sheridan eat his words about young players not taking opportunities
-McHugh has something but not at LB
-Hartley and Mellor were bollocks
-Reid is immense, so's Cox
-Norburn was crap

nice

Losing narrowly is the new winning

I don't bother much about things Argyle these days but I thank you for that post, Sam, an informed and interesting post about FOOTBALL   

GreenSam wrote:

Cheers Alan.

Elias- yes, that one was rather obnoxiously long even for me wasn't it. The precis:

-We started shit
-We got decent
-We ended amazingly
-Harvey and Allen went some way towards making Sheridan eat his words about young players not taking opportunities-McHugh has something but not at LB
-Hartley and Mellor were bollocks
-Reid is immense, so's Cox
-Norburn was crap

To a degree.Different matter though,coming on in extra time when fatigue has set in among the players who have been on the pitch since the start.I'll reserve judgement until the pair of them have made an impact in other circumstances.

Agree with most of your report,the first half was awful from Argyle-the really anger inducing element was the diabolical first touch shown by most of the players,the ball was bouncing off 'em as if striking a concrete wall.Why that should be,i don't really know-edginess maybe but whatever, it grips my shit when it happens so often.I was seriously thinking about going home at HT but went for a piss to calm down a bit and somehow Argyle clawed a goal back when i was walking back to my seat.Couple of interesting things at HT-the brilliant Russian ball juggler from the Moscow circus and John Leiper as the ex player guest-he was in goal when i first started going to Argyle,didn't know he was still around ,looked and sounded in good nick.

That goal certainly seemed at act as a tonic though and Argyle were a different team afterwards.You've covered most of the ground in your post,suffice to say that if Argyle play like they did in the first half then they'll go down,if the standard post HT is maintained then they will be serious promotion contenders.Shame Reid wasn't on the pitch for the penalties but so be it,he looked very sharp throughout having lost a bit of weight and league 1 defences will find him a handful this year.Still worrying though where goals from other areas of the team are going to come from.Bottom line is that Argyle's atrocious record in the league cup continues.Other posters have commented on similar "heroic losers" ties in the recent and not so recent past-don't think too much can be read into them,sometimes Argyle have had good seasons afterwards,sometimes atrocious ones.The real business starts on Saturday and, just as importantly, next Tuesday-a minimum of 4 points is needed from those games to stop any early season pressure building up.

Rarely do reports and cannot match Sam's in depth analysis. It was great value tonight - a tenner for a really enjoyable match. We are desperate for two full backs - if McHugh is a better left back than Purrington I'll kiss Brent's ass. How we can go through a window and end up with worse defence than last year I'll never know. And we let Luke Young go to play Norburn and O'Connor in midfield???? Luke has more ability in his eyebrows than they have combined.

Reid was superb - in the first half doing the job of two men. His work rate outstanding, his control and bringing in others superb and finishing top class. Curtis looked assured at the back and is finding his voice as captain and Luke can't be blamed for any of the goals. Is that the start of a spine?

The manager - he took an age to work out that their Cox was running the show from the gap between the midfield and defensive lines. When he did work it out and pushed the back four up it the game turned in our favour. At the same time Allessandro and Banton showed flexibility in being able to switch sides and Allessandro moved closer to Reid to give him something to play off. The moves were right but why did it take 45 minutes to work it out? Starting with three defensive midfielders at home is not the sign of a confident manager - perhaps a performance like this will change his mindset.

The kids (Harvey and Allen) looked great - energy, determination, confidence and no shortage of skill - bring them with Purrington at left back and we will have a youthful energy to add to a good spirit. Less of a doommonger this year after that performance.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Rarely do reports and cannot match Sam's in depth analysis. It was great value tonight - a tenner for a really enjoyable match. We are desperate for two full backs - if McHugh is a better left back than Purrington I'll kiss Brent's ass. How we can go through a window and end up with worse defence than last year I'll never know. And we let Luke Young go to play Norburn and O'Connor in midfield???? Luke has more ability in his eyebrows than they have combined.

Reid was superb - in the first half doing the job of two men. His work rate outstanding, his control and bringing in others superb and finishing top class. Curtis looked assured at the back and is finding his voice as captain and Luke can't be blamed for any of the goals. Is that the start of a spine?

The manager - he took an age to work out that their Cox was running the show from the gap between the midfield and defensive lines. When he did work it out and pushed the back four up it the game turned in our favour. At the same time Allessandro and Banton showed flexibility in being able to switch sides and Allessandro moved closer to Reid to give him something to play off. The moves were right but why did it take 45 minutes to work it out? Starting with three defensive midfielders at home is not the sign of a confident manager - perhaps a performance like this will change his mindset.

The kids (Harvey and Allen) looked great - energy, determination, confidence and no shortage of skill - bring them with Purrington at left back and we will have a youthful energy to add to a good spirit. Less of a doommonger this year after that performance.

Norburn is not a defensive midfielder and Purrington was utterly piss weak in some of the matches he played last season.

Greenskin wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Cheers Alan.

Elias- yes, that one was rather obnoxiously long even for me wasn't it. The precis:

-We started shit
-We got decent
-We ended amazingly
-Harvey and Allen went some way towards making Sheridan eat his words about young players not taking opportunities-McHugh has something but not at LB
-Hartley and Mellor were bollocks
-Reid is immense, so's Cox
-Norburn was crap

To a degree.Different matter though,coming on in extra time when fatigue has set in among the players who have been on the pitch since the start.I'll reserve judgement until the pair of them have made an impact in other circumstances.

Agree with most of your report,the first half was awful from Argyle-the really anger inducing element was the diabolical first touch shown by most of the players,the ball was bouncing off 'em as if striking a concrete wall.Why that should be,i don't really know-edginess maybe but whatever, it grips my shit when it happens so often.I was seriously thinking about going home at HT but went for a piss to calm down a bit and somehow Argyle clawed a goal back when i was walking back to my seat.Couple of interesting things at HT-the brilliant Russian ball juggler from the Moscow circus and John Leiper as the ex player guest-he was in goal when i first started going to Argyle,didn't know he was still around ,looked and sounded in good nick.

That goal certainly seemed at act as a tonic though and Argyle were a different team afterwards.You've covered most of the ground in your post,suffice to say that if Argyle play like they did in the first half then they'll go down,if the standard post HT is maintained then they will be serious promotion contenders.Shame Reid wasn't on the pitch for the penalties but so be it,he looked very sharp throughout having lost a bit of weight and league 1 defences will find him a handful this year.Still worrying though where goals from other areas of the team are going to come from.Bottom line is that Argyle's atrocious record in the league cup continues.Other posters have commented on similar "heroic losers" ties in the recent and not so recent past-don't think too much can be read into them,sometimes Argyle have had good seasons afterwards,sometimes atrocious ones.The real business starts on Saturday and, just as importantly, next Tuesday-a minimum of 4 points is needed from those games to stop any early season pressure building up.

A good point, I agree.

He may have been piss weak but he's a kid who will only get better and if you saw McHugh last night you would say Purrington is the best left back the club has got. Playing players out of position is something the Manager has to change.

I thought bar the first half (in which few players put in a performance worth noting) that McHugh had a much improved game from Saturday (granted, it couldn't have got much, if any, worse). It's still apparent that he's not a left back though, and his positioning can cause confusion with Hartley. For the Exeter game I'd start Purrington, but I won't be as concerned now if McHugh starts than I would have been before last night's game.

if this match has proved anything its JS ought to be bending steel to bring in real cover for left back and an actual replacement for hourihane. wouldnt say no to an natural winger too

Am I happy with losing, of course I'm not, am I happy that we actually turned up for a game (admittedly an hour too late but there you go) yes I am. Say what you like but decent teams get beaten as well, it's the manner of the defeat and how you react that make the difference between a decent squad and a crap one, I've not seen any Argyle fight back or passion in three years or more. When was the last time we came back from a two goal deficit? Remember in a league game we would have come away with a point against a decent league 1 side. If you can't see any positives in last nights game then you just plain don't want to.
FOASU. Foreshore.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

He may have been piss weak but he's a kid who will only get better and if you saw McHugh last night you would say Purrington is the best left back the club has got. Playing players out of position is something the Manager has to change.

agreed, never been a fan of it myself.

Iggy wrote:

Am I happy with losing, of course I'm not, am I happy that we actually turned up for a game (admittedly an hour too late but there you go) yes I am. Say what you like but decent teams get beaten as well, it's the manner of the defeat and how you react that make the difference between a decent squad and a crap one, I've not seen any Argyle fight back or passion in three years or more. When was the last time we came back from a two goal deficit? Remember in a league game we would have come away with a point against a decent league 1 side. If you can't see any positives in last nights game then you just plain don't want to.
FOASU. Foreshore.

Well put Iggs. I can take losing when the performance has guts and effort! Take that effort into a League Two game and we'll do very well. Revert back to the Cambridge performance and we'll really struggle.

I agree with Angry also about Sheridan needing to bring in a left back (perhaps) and definitely a centre midfielder - Norburn is good and will develop well, but he's not quite there to be playing week in week out IMO, nor is Harvey or Allen though they also played well. I'd rather us bring in another striker than winger though - in an ideal world both. If Reid needs to come off however then we lose that oomph up top in the middle. Having another decent option there would be good, a young loanee would suffice. Morgan did do well in fairness to him, he's a battler, but if we are looking to promotion then we need another and better option.

Greenskin wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Cheers Alan.

Elias- yes, that one was rather obnoxiously long even for me wasn't it. The precis:

-We started shit
-We got decent
-We ended amazingly
-Harvey and Allen went some way towards making Sheridan eat his words about young players not taking opportunities-McHugh has something but not at LB
-Hartley and Mellor were bollocks
-Reid is immense, so's Cox
-Norburn was crap

To a degree.Different matter though,coming on in extra time when fatigue has set in among the players who have been on the pitch since the start.I'll reserve judgement until the pair of them have made an impact in other circumstances.

Agree with most of your report,the first half was awful from Argyle-the really anger inducing element was the diabolical first touch shown by most of the players,the ball was bouncing off 'em as if striking a concrete wall.Why that should be,i don't really know-edginess maybe but whatever, it grips my shit when it happens so often.I was seriously thinking about going home at HT but went for a piss to calm down a bit and somehow Argyle clawed a goal back when i was walking back to my seat.Couple of interesting things at HT-the brilliant Russian ball juggler from the Moscow circus and John Leiper as the ex player guest-he was in goal when i first started going to Argyle,didn't know he was still around ,looked and sounded in good nick.

That goal certainly seemed at act as a tonic though and Argyle were a different team afterwards.You've covered most of the ground in your post,suffice to say that if Argyle play like they did in the first half then they'll go down,if the standard post HT is maintained then they will be serious promotion contenders.Shame Reid wasn't on the pitch for the penalties but so be it,he looked very sharp throughout having lost a bit of weight and league 1 defences will find him a handful this year.Still worrying though where goals from other areas of the team are going to come from.Bottom line is that Argyle's atrocious record in the league cup continues.Other posters have commented on similar "heroic losers" ties in the recent and not so recent past-don't think too much can be read into them,sometimes Argyle have had good seasons afterwards,sometimes atrocious ones.The real business starts on Saturday and, just as importantly, next Tuesday-a minimum of 4 points is needed from those games to stop any early season pressure building up.

Imagine how chilled out you would have been if you went for a dump.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Cheers Alan.

Elias- yes, that one was rather obnoxiously long even for me wasn't it. The precis:

-We started shit
-We got decent
-We ended amazingly
-Harvey and Allen went some way towards making Sheridan eat his words about young players not taking opportunities-McHugh has something but not at LB
-Hartley and Mellor were bollocks
-Reid is immense, so's Cox
-Norburn was crap

To a degree.Different matter though,coming on in extra time when fatigue has set in among the players who have been on the pitch since the start.I'll reserve judgement until the pair of them have made an impact in other circumstances.

Agree with most of your report,the first half was awful from Argyle-the really anger inducing element was the diabolical first touch shown by most of the players,the ball was bouncing off 'em as if striking a concrete wall.Why that should be,i don't really know-edginess maybe but whatever, it grips my shit when it happens so often.I was seriously thinking about going home at HT but went for a piss to calm down a bit and somehow Argyle clawed a goal back when i was walking back to my seat.Couple of interesting things at HT-the brilliant Russian ball juggler from the Moscow circus and John Leiper as the ex player guest-he was in goal when i first started going to Argyle,didn't know he was still around ,looked and sounded in good nick.

That goal certainly seemed at act as a tonic though and Argyle were a different team afterwards.You've covered most of the ground in your post,suffice to say that if Argyle play like they did in the first half then they'll go down,if the standard post HT is maintained then they will be serious promotion contenders.Shame Reid wasn't on the pitch for the penalties but so be it,he looked very sharp throughout having lost a bit of weight and league 1 defences will find him a handful this year.Still worrying though where goals from other areas of the team are going to come from.Bottom line is that Argyle's atrocious record in the league cup continues.Other posters have commented on similar "heroic losers" ties in the recent and not so recent past-don't think too much can be read into them,sometimes Argyle have had good seasons afterwards,sometimes atrocious ones.The real business starts on Saturday and, just as importantly, next Tuesday-a minimum of 4 points is needed from those games to stop any early season pressure building up.

Imagine how chilled out you would have been if you went for a dump.

I'll try it next time, Frank.Sounds like a good excuse for a pre match mixed grill with strawberry tart to follow,washed down with half a dozen pints.Could have the best of both worlds then.

Nobody mention the wind that was blowing from the Devonport end, so the team who had the wind played the better game, first half and the first half of extra time it was LO. Mellor played better then Sam marked him.