On the Brink of admin ??

We'll see.Argyle will field a team at Pompey in May. I have no doubt about that., Hell's teeth I might even do corporate to celebrate the day.....

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

Please amplify.

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

People?

Who gave you the right to speak for the people?

I think that Brent intended to gift the Club to Nikkk once the silly Phase 2 extension was under way, but now that Nikk appears to have dropped off the radar and with Jimmy also feeling the pinch, as well as the whole fiasco seemingly turning into a PCC, Torbay and Tudor nightmare, I guess there were few options left then to ask TW to open up his wallet.

I have a feeling that the lip quiverer will not be around for much longer along with the Pres and the driver, hopefully there will be a little room in the boot for Jones.

The question is, where does this leave the hole in Central Park, the Club, Millbay, the Pavilions and the Civic Centre?

I predict legal action from Falmouth to Torbay.

Nikkk was still in the director's box yesterday.

GOB wrote:

I think that Brent intended to gift the Club to Nikkk once the silly Phase 2 extension was under way, but now that Nikk appears to have dropped off the radar and with Jimmy also feeling the pinch, as well as the whole fiasco seemingly turning into a PCC, Torbay and Tudor nightmare, I guess there were few options left then to ask TW to open up his wallet.

I have a feeling that the lip quiverer will not be around for much longer along with the Pres and the driver, hopefully there will be a little room in the boot for Jones.

The question is, where does this leave the hole in Central Park, the Club, Millbay, the Pavilions and the Civic Centre?

It is inevitable that the events of this week have lead to speculation and concern about the immediate future of the football club and by implication the future of major projects within the City and Torbay that James Brent is at the forefront of.

Let's start with the football club. The involvement of Tony Wrathall has addressed whatever short term financial issues there may have been. The prospect of improving crowds as the push for the play offs and beyond will generate unbudgeted income that will return the finances of the football club to a more robust position. Since the introduction of the 55% SCMP clubs have to report financially to the Football League on a regular basis to ensure there HMRC debt obligations are met. This has significantly reduced the chances of clubs going into administration as a way of avoiding their immediate debt obligations. Argyle have to be further compliant given their 5 year agreement following the exit from administration in October 2011. So any thoughts of administration are misplaced.

With regard to HHP I have always said that any start could only be realistically justified during the close season because of the asbestos issues in the main grandstand and the need to get all the temporary accommodation up and running. To do this during a season was always going to be challenging. A close season start will allow the new grandstand to open for the 2015/2016 season. So a proper assessment of the ability of James Brent to deliver HHP can only be judged as each week of the close season passes. There are plenty of matters that have to be addressed before that date that will give clues to any commencement.

HHP has to deliver an ice rink for the Pavilions regeneration to commence. If that is not possible there are other locations with the City for an ice rink to be built with agreement of other parties including the City Council. The Civic Centre agreement is not dependent on such linkages and can be completed with independence allied to a named hotel operated and committed residential developers. Oldway has commenced in part - it is the work to the Listed Building that has been delayed with agreement with the Council.

Any talk of Nikkk taking over at Argyle is and was fanciful at best as it has proved.

Events of the week have understandably shaken confidence. In my view it is for both the AfT and PASB to step up to the plate and ask serious questions based on accurate information and facts rather than conjecture. We will await the reports from meetings this weekend with even greater interest. Any attempt of further marginalisation and refusal to respond to genuine questions should be treated with concern in the light of events.

Thanks Graham for your insight on this subject.....it is nice to get more clarity.....just not used to that on here with all the Brent/Club bashers....please keep giving us your view on things.

Graham Clark wrote:

HHP has to deliver an ice rink for the Pavilions regeneration to commence. If that is not possible there are other locations within the City for an ice rink to be built with agreement of other parties including the City Council.

The ice rink thing certainly holds up the Pavillions "revamp" and associated changes of use. They'll want to get on with that as there is bulk standard "residential/student" easy money to be made there.
But in another part of the city ? I find it difficult to understand how a stand alone ice rink not in immediate juxtaposition to other leisure activities in another part of the city could possibly be viable. Of course, there's always the other North side of the P and R car park and cricket club land/council depot. Nothing would surprise me with this Council any more.

Graham, the track record of the James and the Board in answering any questions of a financial nature is not good. The questions were never answered in 'better' times - now the proverbial seems to be hitting the fan there is not a hope in hell of any questions being answered in an open and transparent manner. I have never been comfortable with the financials, the football creditor 'balloon' payment has always been my major worry. The answer to our questions has always been 'the new stand'.

The balloon payment will be in excess of £2million and is only two and a half years away. At the outset JB stated that the new stand would provide between £1-2million 'extra' revenue per annum. This was later restated as £1million. Let us for a moment believe that the stand starts at the end of this season and is fully operational by September 2015. That leaves just one year of additional income (£1million). But nothing I hear from official sources convinces me that there is any actual plan for achieving this target. At the Senior Greens meeting on Thursday a questio was asked about what would be inside the new stand to help the football club. After the usual spiel about the necessity to utilise a club 365 days a year Martyn said the club had spoken to the Chamber of Commerce and there was a need for conference and training facilities, the club would also look to bring in some music acts (?) and 'whatever else you might think we need'. Let us not forget that in the last week Exeter Chiefs actually commenced work on building their state of the art conference and training facilities. A million extra income is most unlikely, but even that would be less than half the necessary amount to pay the football creditor debt and ensure continuation of our 'golden share'.

The loss of Nikk's income, the administration of part of Akkeron's hotel chain, the new 'begging bowl' strategy of investment (Martyn Starnes 'James asked whoever would listen') that has led to an abandonment of 'no previous directors' policy, the refusal of current directors tofund the club, the current debt level (£1.6 - 2 million to Akkeron) and the outstanding footballcreditor debt are the facts we know. Looked at logically even the staunchest Brent apologist must be worried. We have no land left to sell. Our 'intangible assets' are worthless in a forced sale. If ever there was time for a Contingency Group to form, it is now.

Graham, throughout our past troubles and since tere has only really been one man who has stood above the personalities, one man who has the respect of all sides. I hope above hope that your work and family circumstances will allow you to take a lead in the upcoming struggle. It maybe a lot closer than people think.

The Club has required a short term fix and is hoping for a play-off pay day to pay future HMRC obligations. What happens if we don't make the play-offs?

I see that Akeron have now given an assurance that work will commence this year with reference to Oldway Mansion. As far as I am aware the delay...."The legal agreement was partly delayed because Akkeron has decided to build the homes themselves rather than use a developer because of market conditions."? - Herald Express

It really doesn't matter how things are viewed, if the recent comments and rumours are correct then there will be problems ahead.

Damon.Lenszner wrote:

Graham, the track record of the James and the Board in answering any questions of a financial nature is not good. The questions were never answered in 'better' times - now the proverbial seems to be hitting the fan there is not a hope in hell of any questions being answered in an open and transparent manner. I have never been comfortable with the financials, the football creditor 'balloon' payment has always been my major worry. The answer to our questions has always been 'the new stand'.

The balloon payment will be in excess of £2million and is only two and a half years away. At the outset JB stated that the new stand would provide between £1-2million 'extra' revenue per annum. This was later restated as £1million. Let us for a moment believe that the stand starts at the end of this season and is fully operational by September 2015. That leaves just one year of additional income (£1million). But nothing I hear from official sources convinces me that there is any actual plan for achieving this target.  At the Senior Greens meeting on Thursday a questio was asked about what would be inside the new stand to help the football club. After the usual spiel about the necessity to utilise a club 365 days a year Martyn said the club had spoken to the Chamber of Commerce and there was a need for conference and training facilities, the club would also look to bring in some music acts (?) and 'whatever else you might think we need'. Let us not forget that in the last week Exeter Chiefs actually commenced work on building their state of the art conference and training facilities. A million extra income is most unlikely, but even that would be less than half the necessary amount to pay the football creditor debt and ensure continuation of our 'golden share'.

The loss of Nikk's income, the administration of part of Akkeron's hotel chain, the new 'begging bowl' strategy of investment (Martyn Starnes 'James asked whoever would listen') that has led to an abandonment of 'no previous directors' policy, the refusal of current directors tofund the club, the current debt level (£1.6 - 2 million to Akkeron) and the outstanding footballcreditor debt are the facts we know. Looked at logically even the staunchest Brent apologist must be worried. We have no land left to sell. Our 'intangible assets' are worthless in a forced sale. If ever there was time for a Contingency Group to form, it is now.

Graham, throughout our past troubles and since tere has only really been one man who has stood above the personalities, one man who has the respect of all sides. I hope above hope that your work and family circumstances will allow you to take a lead in the upcoming struggle. It maybe a lot closer than people think.

Hear , hear !

Even if not in an official capacity, the situation still requires individuals like GC to stand shoulder to shoulder with the AFT. If satisfactory and believable responses are not achieved through dialogue with the owners of the club, the Trust would be justified in reaching out to the wider fanbase utilising all available media, to lead a more militant and coordinated approach.

The last thing required is a 'contingency group', featuring the usual suspects who have moved into the posh seats at HP and have clearly demonstrated that their loyalties can be bought.

I can think of at least 3 members of the original group that couldn't be within a million miles of CG2.

I can think of four.

To pick just one quote from Graham's post above - "With regard to HHP I have always said that any start could only be realistically justified during the close season because of the asbestos issues in the main grandstand and the need to get all the temporary accommodation up and running. To do this during a season was always going to be challenging. A close season start will allow the new grandstand to open for the 2015/2016 season. So a proper assessment of the ability of James Brent to deliver HHP can only be judged as each week of the close season passes."

The existence of that asbestos would have been known since the beginning. That wouldn't have required significant expertise to know. It was clear that to do this during the season was nigh on impossible. To have presented the possible commencement of the work as potentially being around the turn of the 2013/2014 year (I can't remember the precise detail of what the club said) strikes me as sophistry.

I agree that Nikk's taking over of the club is and has always been nonsense.

Add this to all of the rest of the absence of fan involvement and the rebuff to the AFT - not to mention the shoddy treatment of the PASB - does make one question the whole shebang. Maybe Mr Brent out-reached himself - and he certainly did through his aim of operating within the mantra of "Integrity, Honesty, Financial stability" with cast-iron promises of 'fan engagement' and statements that the "club is a community asset with the fans at its heart" (I quote from his Guildhall meeting) then at this point there is very good reason to be suspicious of what is actually going on.

Mark Edwards has promised a summary response from the PASB meeting with the club yesterday followed soon after by a full account. I'll look forward to that. I will also look forward to the AFT's considered response.

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

Granted some do believe everything what rumours are put on here but the majority take it with a pinch of salt. Doesnt mean its taboo not to discuss them in anycase.

If any of those arselicking sell outs are anywhere near a new group - forget it!!

New group needs to be headed up by people such as john Lloyd - graham Clarke etc.

Angry wrote:

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

Granted some do believe everything what rumours are put on here but the majority take it with a pinch of salt. Doesnt mean its taboo not to discuss them in anycase.

I think you will find that pretty much every single rumour that has been put on here has turned out to 100% correct. Off the top of my head and considering context, I can't think of one that has been wrong.

Bandwagon wrote:

If any of those  arselicking sell outs are anywhere near a new group - forget it!!

This.

GOB wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

If any of those  arselicking sell outs are anywhere near a new group - forget it!!

This.

x 1000

punchdrunk wrote:

GOB wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

If any of those  arselicking sell outs are anywhere near a new group - forget it!!

This.

x 1000

x 2000   

GOB wrote:

Angry wrote:

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

Granted some do believe everything what rumours are put on here but the majority take it with a pinch of salt. Doesnt mean its taboo not to discuss them in anycase.

I think you will find that pretty much every single rumour that has been put on here has turned out to 100% correct. Off the top of my head and considering context, I can't think of one that has been wrong.

Not every single rumour has been true at all GOB. Some yes but not all.

This situation described recently on the farm was obvious to some of us.

Gerald Wylie
Post subject: Re: Tony Wrathall to return to Plymouth Argyle's boardPostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:25 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:46 pm
When Damon Lenszner stepped down from the board did Stapleton, Wrathall, Gill, etc find a new director to replace him? No. They split his shares between themselves.
Six months later they began the sell off of the team, which bought in £8 millions. They gave Paul Sturrock a measly £2 millions to spend.
With ownership of the ground and a nice bank balance, PAFC became an attractive proposition.
Many blame Gardner, Todd and Kagami for its demise but the problems began with the old boards desire to milk the club for personal gain as best they could.
Wrathall was very much a part of the scheme and shouldn't be anywhere near the club.


At the risk of repeating myself, there is no way that Plymouth or any other city/town, has/ will provide the sort of attendance figures necessary at Championship level unless, the club has top flight history. The dimwits on the farm like to blame apathetic janners and use the fact that clubs like Norwich and Southampton pull in 20k plus crowds, even in the third tier. The only reason for that is that the city 'believes' because they've been there and got the t shirt.
More recent success stories like Reading, Swansea and the previous biggest city club never to have reached the top flight, Hull, will no doubt also enjoy cemented fanbases around the 20k mark. The clusterfuck screams lack of ambition, so the janners will remain apathetic, just as the Royals, Swans and Tigers fans did before lift off.

Angry wrote:

GOB wrote:

Angry wrote:

OnlyOdi wrote:

Considering the previous records of one of those giving "informed posts" on here, people might not be so quick to believe everything they read.

Granted some do believe everything what rumours are put on here but the majority take it with a pinch of salt. Doesnt mean its taboo not to discuss them in anycase.

I think you will find that pretty much every single rumour that has been put on here has turned out to 100% correct. Off the top of my head and considering context, I can't think of one that has been wrong.

Not every single rumour has been true at all GOB. Some yes but not all.

Within the 'serious' context, off the top of my head I cannot think of one that hasn't been correct Angry. There are many things commented on that have no foundation, but they are not rumours, they are comments.