Devon Dragons

Football fans almost universally just want to see a winning team. If you can provide that as an owner then any number of sins are either forgotten or ignored.

There's lots of examples out there and Pompey FC is a good one. For years they splurged money they could not afford and had no chance of justifying. Along the way they climbed to near the top of the PL, won the FA cup and played European football.

Until their wheels came off the fans had the ride of their lives and Leeds did much the same before them getting as far as the Champions' League semi-final before it all came crashing down for them.

Right now we have Hull City and Cardiff City both enjoying almost unprecedented success on the pitch. Off it they have both spent vast chunks of their owners' fortunes and they'll have severe difficulties paying the guaranteed loans back when the time comes to do so and their fans have batted barely an eyelid.

Until now.

Cardiff have their kit colours changed from blue to red leading to some, but not widespread, dissent and now the owner/manager spat (with distinct shades of McCauley/Shilton but sprinkled with success instead of failure!) seems to be nearing a tipping point so too are the fans.

Hull City are on the verge of being re-branded the Hull Tigers and many of their fans ain't happy. Another tipping point, maybe?

So what would we accept as Argyle supporters? It seems as though it is expected that we will tolerate anything, question nothing and Trust James but should we?

If, for example, it was guaranteed that we would win the FA cup and enjoy a few promotions and big occasions would we accept changing from green and white stripes to red and white ones, moving away from Home Park to, say, a new stadium out at Ivybridge and renaming to something like Devon Dragons?

We all want to see success but do we all want to see it at any cost?

No is the short answer - we will not prosper under Brent - why should we? given his blatant non footballing interests and lack of team investment.
Although you have a point about the lack of questioning from the fanbase except on this forum of course. To be honest who knows what is fermenting in the reluctant bidders mind. On the current Brent philosophy we will continue at best to be league 2 mid/bottom enders for some time. I would suggest the mjority of the faithfull 6k left attend out of loyalty not positive expectation - like myself. The attendances will continue to reduce and the footballing budget will get smaller.

Well it's never going to happen in the urban hotbed that is Ivybridge anyway. Not sure 'dragons' would catch on either. Devon Dumplings would be more apt.
Mind you I'd take anything rather than the current nauseatingly corrupt and amateur village show.

Tringreen wrote:

Well it's never going to happen in the urban hotbed that is Ivybridge anyway. Not sure 'dragons' would catch on either. Devon Dumplings would be more apt.
Mind you I'd take anything rather than the current nauseatingly corrupt and amateur village show.

I was just thinking of completely rebranding eveything. A "Plymouth Argyle" which is neither in Plymouth or in any way resembles a recognisable Argyle. Call them what you like and put them where you like in any kit you like. Changing is the point not what it changes to.

Besides what it changes to doesn't matter because the FA cup win is guaranteed as a result.

(This isn't real life, you know.)

feck no

Interesting thread.

No.

It's not Devon, it's De-bon.

So if you wouldn't change everything what changes would you accept?

I don't much care for the fuss about Argyle's shade of green. Our green has been changed so often there is no such thing as "traditional" to go back to. I don't much care whether we we play in green and white or green and black or white and green or black and green or stripes or whatever (although I'd probably object to hoops) because over the years we've had just about every variant and, once again, there's nothing "traditional" to go back to. The same goes for a club badge that has been changed so often its design barely has any meaning any more.

As long as it is green and black and white (and not hooped) pretty much anything is fine by me

I think some kind of regional franchises are pretty much nailed on before too long. Bristol could sustain a club but we would almost certainly be a part of a south west franchise.

Too many lower division clubs are struggling to survive on current crowds and income whilst the premier league clubs just keep siphoning off more and more cash from the Tv companies.

The championship would survive but below that I can definitely see regional sides competing in the not too distant future.

For me personally that would be the end of any emotional tie to club football.

It wouldn't affect me too much if the club moved away from Plymouth, as long as it wasn't hundreds of miles. That's because I'm not from Plymouth. I suspect I could cope if we changed shirt colour although I would be vocal in my opposition to it but I think a name change to Plymouth Panthers would make me so nauseous I would have had enough.

If the franchise thing led to sides only having one or two players born outside of an agreed catchment area I might be interested and watch a Scottish side.

It's interesting because I know a couple of guys who dropped Argyle when truro city started rising up the non league pyramid but it wasn't something that I would do even if they had reached league two. I don't think it would take long for the Truro boys to jump back onboard if Argyle started winning regularly either.

Todd was the first to run the Devon and Cornwall franchise thing through his rather small selfish mind and it showed itself in his World Cup bid. More professional football clubs are bound to follow the now global demise of democratic planning and rush for corporate brand domination over any previously held "boundaries".
Now we have seen the Plymouth Council's abject acceptance of a flawed and deeply unpopular plan for HHP rendering the club up Ernesettle creek without a paddle, it is quite clear to me that medium/long term planning strategy and avaricious eyes within this fast becoming pointless city will be trained on encouraging the next owners of the club to up and move out of the park leaving a handy hole for private bespoke gated living and/or the ingress of the newly privatising education "industry". There's a gold rush going on at the moment within this unpublicised giving away of public education assets for a song. Marjon would be a shoe in for a land swop and development if the education privateers and carpetbaggers were to win the battle for the park.

Talking of privateers Sir Frank, while I do genuinely like some things about you, I do wonder if you'll be sober enough on a Saturday to notice if any club tradition had changed or not.
For me the remaining traditions are sacrosanct and are all that keep me half attached to this present shell of a club, given the present regime.
And no, I disagree. Everything in life is not JUST about winning or else Home Park would have emptied decades ago.

Hull and Cardiff are just two examples of clubs representing cities roughly the size of Plymouth achieving success.There are others,Swansea and Reading [indeed you could also point to Southampton,Norwich,Ipswich etc as birds of the same feather] for example,who have achieved success without upsetting their traditions and consequently their supporters, so there would appear to be no need for success/turmoil to be automatic bedfellows.Would i want a season in the premier league for Plymouth United playing in Blue and white stripes? Tough one,but probably yes-the pressure could always be maintained in subsequent years to revert back to the traditional name and colours,especially if the ownership or directorate were to change.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

If, for example, it was guaranteed that we would win the FA cup and enjoy a few promotions and big occasions

Look, one day you are going to have to face it, it doesn't matter how long you hold your breath or how tightly you close your eyes, when you open them up again you will not be Portsmouth, you will always be little ol' under achieving Muff Argh, nobodies second favourite side, perennial losers whose only minor successes have been a couple of 3rd Division championships.

Learn to appreciate that you have reached your natural place in the world, you will soon start to feel much better once you accept reality.

Gospel truth,cross my heart and all that,when reading this thread earlier,i was thinking to myself-how long before that Exeter tw@t puts his tuppence worth in? Lo and behold.....

Greenskin wrote:

Gospel truth,cross my heart and all that,when reading this thread earlier,i was thinking to myself-how long before that Exeter tw@t puts his tuppence worth in? Lo and behold.....

Well I shouldn't want to disappoint, you can rest easy, as long as you boys are away with the fairies I shall be here to keep you grounded, to remind you that you are who you are in the hope that all your wannabe fantasies don't get too much of a hold.

Your major issue is not and will never be what date the FA Cup Final is but more what kind of dead cat bounce Northampton get.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

If, for example, it was guaranteed that we would win the FA cup and enjoy a few promotions and big occasions

Look, one day you are going to have to face it, it doesn't matter how long you hold your breath or how tightly you close your eyes, when you open them up again you will not be Portsmouth, you will always be little ol' under achieving Muff Argh, nobodies second favourite side, perennial losers whose only minor successes have been a couple of 3rd Division championships.

Learn to appreciate that you have reached your natural place in the world, you will soon start to feel much better once you accept reality.

My hope is that one day Argo will emulate the Grecians great footballing achievements.  

akagreengull wrote:

My hope is that one day Argo will emulate the Grecians great footballing achievements.  

Hey, by the end of the New Year fixtures you may well have achieved that for the first time in four years.

Greenskin wrote:

Gospel truth,cross my heart and all that,when reading this thread earlier,i was thinking to myself-how long before that Exeter tw@t puts his tuppence worth in? Lo and behold.....

My Brussel sprout flew across the room when I read that!!  

Lord Tisdale wrote:

akagreengull wrote:

My hope is that one day Argo will emulate the Grecians great footballing achievements.  

Hey, by the end of the New Year fixtures you may well have achieved that for the first time in four years.

HO, HO, HO!   

championship is the highest we can aim for i am content with that.

Armada Chargers. Kit changed to a blue and daglo orange. New 40k stadium built and shared with Albion at Brickfields.

hell yeh - I'm up for change.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Let's start again.


(Dons tin hat and slips away quietly)

Person Of Interest wrote:

Armada Chargers.

Only charging going on around Gnome Park will be in the car parks.

JMHO but what has happened at Cardiff is a disgrace.

It wasn't that long ago they had crowds of 4000 and were bigger underachievers than us. They didn't need change of colour to bring them to their relative success. Some things do need to be preserved and changing from blue to red and being lucky undermines everything the manager and players achieved. Cardiff fans are angry and rightly so. I suspect relegation will cripple them, which would be a pity. It's not the sort of investment I'd want to see at PAFC.

All I've ever asked from Argyle is to be the best they can. Maximising revenues is part of that but something 'the club' has always failed despite competitive attendances.

I would be happy to watch argyle/devon away from home park playing premiership football in a new ground, owned by a rich foreign owner. because i've had more than enough of potless local muppets, and posh chancers to last a lifetime! mr tan come on down!

I think the franchise thing is only really a runner if it would guarantee top level sport in the region - which given the region's historic successes in the sport it simply wouldn't.

As it is the club just about survives as it is because of it's identity and history. People go because they saw Adrian Littlejohn score goals in the 1990s, they remember the sham of Brucie in goal followed by the mediocrity of Sheffield, remember bouncing around the old Spion Kop when we scored a 4th against Kidderminster...remember that 1996 green and white scarf hanging out the window on the way to Wembley...for a club with a shit team, who have always had a pretty shit team - this is all we've got.

Look at the nightmares being faced by the Welsh regions in rugby. They only get decent crowds for the Heineken Cup. Forcing regional links on sport where the historical precedent doesn't exist (like in NZ or Ireland) just doesn't work.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I think the franchise thing is only really a runner if it would guarantee top level sport in the region - which given the region's historic successes in the sport it simply wouldn't.

As it is the club just about survives as it is because of it's identity and history. People go because they saw Adrian Littlejohn score goals in the 1990s, they remember the sham of Brucie in goal followed by the mediocrity of Sheffield, remember bouncing around the old Spion Kop when we scored a 4th against Kidderminster...remember that 1996 green and white scarf hanging out the window on the way to Wembley...for a club with a shit team, who have always had a pretty shit team - this is all we've got.

Look at the nightmares being faced by the Welsh regions in rugby. They only get decent crowds for the Heineken Cup. Forcing regional links on sport where the historical precedent doesn't exist (like in NZ or Ireland) just doesn't work.

While i agree with what you say, the only glimmer of of hope i can see on the regional thing, is a fast rising population will make the area seem attractive to some wealthy owner being the "one" who brings premiership football to the southwest, i know its probabley as likely brent getting promoted out of the basement, but we can dream!