Be Careful What You Wish For.

chimone18

"Swansea are everything that I admire in modern football whereas, my own club, Cardiff have become everything that I loath.(sic)

Regarding brad96's comment that Cardiff supporters 'put up with the guy destroying the club's identify', to an extent I have to agree. I would suggest that supporters were split 50/50 over those that supported the 're-brand' (or as it's been more accurately referred to, the destruction of our identity) and those who were and are opposed to it. Regarding this I think it's important to make reference to groups such as 'Bluebirds Unite' who continue to protest against what has happened at the club.

I personally will not buy another ticket to watch Cardiff until Tan has gone. To my mind the club is in the hands of someone who has no affinity with club, the local area or even, as David's article suggests, the game itself.

Cardiff are finally in the 'Premier' League. But at what cost? Our identity, our history and soon also, I assume, one of the few redeeming features of our club - an excellent young Manager.

I'll miss you if you go Malkay, but to my mind you're better off out of it sir.



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And now we learn that Vincent Tan - who didn't even know the rules of football when he bought Cardiff, but wasn't worried about the fact because, "(football is) just another business" - has been passing his thoughts on tactics, substitutions and team selection to the dressing room during games. It also seems that the replacement of McKay's trusted recruitment manager with a 23-year old Kazakh mate of Tan's son was simply the opening salvo, since it appears that Mackay has been told he can go at the end of the season

Sounds like the so-called promised land of the Premier League really is worth taking any gamble with the future of your football club. Now, if only you can find a wealthier class of leech ...

Interesting piece, JTG. Unfortunately, I don't think we, PAFC, have much to worry about re the Premiership for the next 50 - 100 years. 

Jello wrote:

Interesting piece, JTG. Unfortunately, I don't think we, PAFC, have much to worry about re the Premiership for the next 50 - 100 years. 

Would you like to qualify that bit about the Premiership? It leaves the sort of open goal even your strikers couldn't miss.

Oh good,another thread by Jabba the Gut on the theme of "look at us,we're a trust run club and third in the fourth division at the moment".How interesting.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

At least it didn't stretch to 40 paragraphs this time,thankful for small mercies i suppose.

Jello wrote:

Interesting piece, JTG. Unfortunately, I don't think we, PAFC, have much to worry about re the Premiership for the next 50 - 100 years. 

I think you will find that it's being pointed out as a chairman that knows nothing about football but is using it as part of a business portfolio.
This is nothing new tho as I have thought this for years

Greenskin wrote:

Oh good,another thread by Jabba the Gut on the theme of "look at us,we're a trust run club and third in the fourth division at the moment".How interesting.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

At least it didn't stretch to 40 paragraphs this time,thankful for small mercies i suppose.

Play the man and not the ball, eh Greenskin?

If you can show me where I once mentioned the words "Exeter City", or mentioned our current league position, or related that to our fan-ownership model, then I'd be grateful. I'll edit it out if you can enlighten me, because that wasn't my point at all. I was addressing those of you who are so obsessed with the Premier League that you set your face against the obvious alternative to the trap you keep falling into and who by blindly hoping for the deus ex machina happy ending of the rich so-called "benefactor", are willing to risk getting into the same position again and again simply because of the hold a dream has on you - when that dream probably isn't at all what it's cracked up to be in the first place.

I have no doubt that widespread fan-ownership is the best thing for the game as a whole in this country, let alone for individual fans. The more of us that take the plunge the easier it will be for others to follow, especially if clubs of your size have the guts to stop chasing their tails. Far from gloating at you I'm urging you to get out from under the leeches and join us - even though that would present me with the horrific existential crisis of wanting Argyle to do well every week (bar a certain two games obviously).

Things are hardly perfect this side of the ownership-model divide (what is?) but they look a hell of a lot better than where you are from where I'm standing.

Jabba, I think you'll find most on ATD simply ask for a well run club, not a club that relies on a benefactor.  We're all aware of trust run clubs and more specifically the interesting 'German model'.

We are the 5% that must be ignored at all costs though because our negativity (or realism as we prefer to call it) will turn mediocre players into absolute shit players and there's nothing the 95%ers can do. Brent is obviously the only option to save the the world from those 5%ers who only have the Club's best interests at heart.

That's where we're at!

Coxside_Green wrote:

Jabba, I think you'll find most on ATD simply ask for a well run club, not a club that relies on a benefactor!...

Is that strictly true CG? It's just that I remember a hell of a lot of posters looking forward to Ken Bates being involved at PAFC a while back when the media story about his supposed interest surfaced. Ken Bates FFS - I thought everyone had gone completely mad. Many times I've seen the hope expressed for rich arabs, or venture capitalists, or somesuch to become involved in PAFC - not to mention all those who either say that a Trust-run club would be bad for Argyle or that even if it were desirable it couldn't happen.

I simply refuse to believe this. Don't forget that the ECFC Trust was not established with any thought of running the club - it's initial objective was simply to buy Gary Alexander. When the Trust eventually reached the end of their tether with the crooks in charge at that time and the members voted to declare their intention to work towards a takeover of the club, the idea seemed totally outlandish. We also had our fair share of people saying that it was an unrealistic ambition. (BTW, describing Russell and Lewis as crooks is not libellous mods -  as you probably know, they have both been convicted of criminal offences at a football club at least once).

When that decision was taken, we probably had less than half the members you do now - it was only a combination of people being inspired by the idea and anger at the clusterfuck we were going through that set the Trust membership soaring.

Look at the example of the reformed Stockport County Trust (who have an excellently designed website BTW)


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Even though a return to fan-ownership seems equally far-off at their club, the Co-op has declared it's intention to try and eventually regain control, even though their previous attempt failed - largely due to taking over under under an insanely detrimental deal with the former private owner and a misguided attempt to run the club rather than simply own it and oversee a professional board.

I would love for our trust to nail its colours to the mast and declare its looking to own and run the club, the GTs could start fund raising for the trust and not prop up Baby James crumbling empire. I reckon that we have two years tops before BJ fooks off and leaves us with another administration period. If we are where we are now that will mean a trip down conference lane if he doesn't take us there before that. The worst case scenario is BJ stays put and milks the club to pay back his loans, once that is out the way he could milk us on the ground rent. Brent needs hounding out of the club, he's got the property deal he wants now do us a favour and f u c k off.

Iggy wrote:

I would love for our trust to nail its colours to the mast and declare its looking to own and run the club, the GTs could start fund raising for the trust and not prop up Baby James crumbling empire. I reckon that we have two years tops before BJ fooks off and leaves us with another administration period. If we are where we are now that will mean a trip down conference lane if he doesn't take us there before that. The worst case scenario is BJ stays put and milks the club to pay back his loans, once that is out the way he could milk us on the ground rent. Brent needs hounding out of the club, he's got the property deal he wants now do us a favour and f u c k off.

I do feel your pain Iggy but have to ask whether you are privy to some super secret info that "Baby James" 's empire is in fact crumbling or that his intent is any more than to make the club pay for itself rather than to "milk" it?

The Cardiff thing is just the price we pay for the country living beyond it's means for so long, our economy is now based upon the premise that there will be a constant stream of foreign money flooding in, Tan won the lottery when Cardiff went up, plenty of others are spunking cash like there is no tomorrow, the rich people in this country are all foreign, well at least all the ones prepared to chuck money at football, unless the fans own the clubs they will go to the highest bidder, I believe that a fair proportion of City's Trust members would vote to 'sell' up if Tw@sdale's bud Ray Kelvin made a few promises. The German model, which is legislated, is the best path to follow imho, including being able to stand up and have a beer.

You've not read all that is planned for the development then Tis?
The only part of the development that is intended to, as you say, help the club pay for itself are two small retail units. Added to the deminishing attendances and the alledged running costs being funded by JB this wont happen.
Then put together the other 14 (if i am correct) retail units alongside the hotel, ice rink, cinema, school and dentistry parts of the development creating funds for JB, what do you think?

mcfry wrote:

You've not read all that is planned for the development then Tis?

So you don't think 4,800 seats in the brand new £10 million stand for which you will be paying the equivalent of sweet FA will be an aid to your finances then?

Which night would you like BJ to come around and wipe your arse for you?

Tis we rent the ground from the council. Think you find they are the other benefactors in the development in that they get better facilities for free and get to charge PAfc more rent

argyl3 wrote:

Tis we rent the ground from the council. Think you find they are the other benefactors in the development in that they get better facilities for free and get to charge PAfc more rent

Odd they way you boys can find a myriad of negs yet ignore the massive positives, I'm gonna call you the deputy downer brigade from now on.

You are getting 10 million quids worth of stand for £30k a year, you should be kissing the man's butt for saving your club and then giving you this new life line.

I thought not. Go back and read it all again, seeing as tho you are REALLY interested in what happens to PAFC, because you have obviously missed a chunk. Then again maybe it is a bit difficult for you to understand  

mcfry wrote:

I thought not. Go back and read it all again, seeing as tho you are REALLY interested in what happens to PAFC, because you have obviously missed a chunk. Then again maybe it is a bit difficult for you to understand  

Nothing to misunderstand, you boys are not only looking a gift horse in the mouth but are spitting venom at him for doing exactly what he said he would do.

He is making you live within your means after having kept you alive when no bugger else was interested, everything else is just the product of your rather overactive and it has to be said, somewhat challenged intellect, just be grateful he hasn't done a Cardiff and made you play in RED.

Oh come on now Tis, what did JB say he was going to do? Rescue the club reluctantly and make it a self sustaining CCC club. Feck all was said about asset stripping the club for his pension portfolio (apart from me and the usual freaks and we were told we were wrong, totally wrong, this man the property developer and all that). Heaney was hounded out of the process -admittedly because he had feck all money- but then where is the evidence that JB has any money? You could have also argued that Heaney could easily have bought the club - or the trust for that matter because JB actually made money on the deal by selling the club back to the council, the spare cash being used to buy the freehold on the carpark and the extra land he needed was gifted to him by PCC.
So we have gone from owning the freehold of the stadium with real potential to develop as a sustainable model for others to envy, then the greedy cnut has anything of value for him and his wife and you say FREE? Free means at no cost, this has cost us sustainability and our future, great if you are a Greek.

Iggy wrote:

. Feck all was said about asset stripping the club for his pension portfolio

So we have gone from owning the freehold of the stadium with real potential to develop as a sustainable model for others to envy,

FFS Iggy, I simply can't accept that you are that dim.

The club was in administration with one asset worth about 50p and liabilities of about £450million, anyone who has spent more than 30 seconds in the real world knows that somebody other than the club or its fans is going to get that asset, in your case, same as ours, your landlord is now the council thereby securing access for the club to what it needs, somewhere to play, for what would seem to any objective observer to be Sweet FA as the pitch layer paid for the pitch and the council will be, either directly or indirectly, picking up the tab for the complete rebuild of the ground.

Brent simply does what it says on the tin.