The Soldier's Murder in Woolwich/Racism debate

worried of penzance wrote:

Well, I have no intention of sharing a forum with the likes of Tisdale and his latest racist post.
It just isn't going to happen.

What do you do about sharing society with "the likes"?

Stockholm been on fire for 7 days .muzlums again,Do you think its Sweden foreign policy?

Yes i'am a racist (unt

downthetrack wrote:

Stockholm been on fire for 7 days .muzlums again,Do you think its Sweden foreign policy?

Started because an elderly man was shot dead by the Police. Much like the riots in London not so long ago which were on the whole blacks and white youths, but let's not go there eh?

It doesn't make it right but it also isn't just mulsims rioting DTT. In these austere times the young are ready to flare up about anything.

worried of penzance wrote:

Thankfully there's only two Tisdales, and sadly both of them like the sound of their own voice, with very little that actually stands up to scrutiny if one could be bothered to respond, or, indeed, listen properly to the paint by numbers lilt.
I have to say, from my perspective, I'm very disappointed with the input from the Exeter contingent on this subject. I had thought Red Star was better than that. Just goes to show how wrong we can all be.

Penz, my comments came within seconds of the killings and were raw and remain. I am proud of my Country, those that want something else for it are free to leave, those intent on killing British soldiers on British streets lose all rights to life in my opinion. The killers should have been executed by the police, no question. Radical Islam has no place in the Uk. Whilst Radical Islamists appear the minority the majority of peace loving Muslims remain consistently too quiet and slow to condemn in my opinion and that helps breed disdain and hatred on both sides.

Civil unrest has happened for as long as we've had modern society.

You are full of shit Red Star - the Muslim council denonced it almost immediately.
22nd May
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This whole thread is incredibly sad. You know, what's the point - nuke the thread into orbit.

I'm personally flattered. I've never been considered to be "in" before. Wow!!! even if a Noolly conection was added.

This thread has gone beyond the killing subject now and is all about the Modding of an offering or rather it seems more about a particular Mod rather than Modding in general. Some people are throwing toys out of prams. It does appear that this has more to do with somebody being elected as a Mod who they didn't vote for and not liking it. This is despite the democratic process that was used which was a vote with those with the most votes winning and being elected to make decisions on all of our behalf. The objections towards a democratically elected Mod says more about the agenda of the protestors than the actual decision to delete a post. I repeat that especially when those protestors didn't even stand themselves.

There was a vote and your boy lost. Get over it and accept the majority decision.

worried of penzance wrote:

Well, I have no intention of sharing a forum with the likes of Tisdale and his latest racist post.
It just isn't going to happen.

Shut the door on your way out.

Didn't understand the post or the issues so quick shout racist and bury your head straight back up your arse, funnily enough Newell did exactly the same thing, great company to keep.

People recognising a problem and either trying to deal with it or plead with their leaders to do something are not racist they are pragmatists, this shiite is getting way worse before it gets any better, ignoring it and wishing everything was all pink and fluffy ain't gonna help.

A very old friend tried to explain to me on Saturday how the attack had nothing to do with Islam, he is devout, he claims that the quran prohibits one man from killing another, then when you tie him down to the actual text he admits that, like in the ten commandments, there is the standard caveat or get out clause, he had left out the bit which says "without a reason". I put it to you that in a religion where the central text extolls the killing of unbelievers just for unbelieving that a pretty obvious "reason" exists for any nut bag that wants it to. The quran incites religious hatred, that's a fact not an opinion, it should be banned and it's followers made to face the English Law which it violates.

Now please come back with an argument if you think you can make one but try and bear in mind that I have got more muslims that I count as friends than the majority of you will ever have seen, the reception at my daughters wedding had a second sitting because it was during ramadan,so leave the racist shiite up your white middle class arses. My friends detest and condemn the actions of those who bring their faith into such a bad light yet remain unable to in any way reject the text itself, the will of Allah, as told to an illiterate peasant by an Arch Angel in 642AD, being paramount.

The Quran is full of contradictions. It is full of texts that Muslims themselves disagree over. It is as easy to find exhortations to war in there as it is to find exhortations to seek peace. It is also easy to find caveats. A standard religious text in fact.

The Quran does not preach religious hatred - that's a fact not an opinion (or at least as much a fact and not an opinion as your assertion). Mohammed was a merchant.

I bow to the greater number of Muslim friends that you have. I don't bow to your aggressive analysis.

You don't seem to like this site. You don't seem to like pasoti. You don't seem to like Exeweb. Do you have any positive views about anything?

Rickler wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

Well, I have no intention of sharing a forum with the likes of Tisdale and his latest racist post.
It just isn't going to happen.

What do you do about sharing society with "the likes"?

If he's anything like me, he probs doesn't go to places where there are an abundance of openly racist characters more than once.

A few months ago we had the conundrum that a 'known' racist signed up to ATD. We made the decision that we were only charged with moderating ATD, and not what people do elsewhere on the internet or in life. Somewhat ironically this poster hasn't commented on recent goings on, but others have emerged as fellow 'known' racists as a result.

Down The Track is openly racist and proud of it...ffs, 2013! He's always struck me as being a bit thick though, so not the greatest surprise.

Pitbull is hopefully just going through a phase which he'll grow out of, he has form for changing his opinions every other minute...but some of the phrases he used were pretty feckin vile.

Lord Tisdale is an absolute caricature of a dimwitted little Englander...right down to the 'namby pamby leftists' comments, it's almost too rehearsed. He can moan about the moderation on here if he likes, to be honest I think we've been WAY too relaxed on his small-minded and baseless bile. No-one wants a sterile, dull forum, but I also don't particularly want to share a forum with someone who spreads his filthy, stupid muck on it's walls.

There were also several other comments from people who I'd normally expect a bit more from. Emotive subject, but not covering oneselves in glory.

Now, if people cannot self-moderate, should the mod-team step in? I don't really know. Well ultimately I think we should, but I've no idea how. Bin the thread as hairy suggested? Surely no-one would miss it?

hairy j wrote:

Civil unrest has happened for as long as we've had modern society.

You are full of shit Red Star - the Muslim council denonced it almost immediately.
22nd May
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This whole thread is incredibly sad. You know, what's the point - nuke the thread into orbit.

Wow a press release...must have missed that.

Tell me what were your views on Irish people living in England when soldiers, civilians and police were being shot and blown up on a regular basis? Did you want them all hung or just sent back where they feckin come from?

The Red Star wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Civil unrest has happened for as long as we've had modern society.

You are full of shit Red Star - the Muslim council denonced it almost immediately.
22nd May
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This whole thread is incredibly sad. You know, what's the point - nuke the thread into orbit.

Wow a press release...must have missed that.

Couldn't have been looking very hard then. There's none so blind..............

I find all this rhetoric saying 'normal Muslims should condemn it more' more than just a little unsettling and disappointing for a fair few reasons:

1) The MCB (by far and away the largest and most mainstream Muslim group) have condemned it, as have the Islamic council. As have thousands of Muslims on the streets of London this weekend as has every Muslim I have seen on facebook/Twitter.

2) It's the exact same line that the likes of Tommy Robinson come out with when he's detailing why Islam is such a threat.

3) Some people never seem to be satisfied. I'm really sorry to namecheck but I do it in the kindest possible intended way- Tring earlier in the thread for example saying that although they are condemning it, he's 'fairly certain they know who is preaching and who is listening and could expose them a lot earlier' thus implying they don't want to. I'm sorry but are they one big family? Do they all know exactly who is doing what and to whom? Should the local Muslims in Devon be held accountable for turning a blind eye to Nicky Reily? How can you be so sure they know? The uncomfortable implication that seems to be being made is that normal Muslims don't care about radicalisation and this weekend has surely indicated how untrue that is. It just seems like whatever condemnation they give isn't quite enough.

4) This is perhaps my most fundamental objection to this rhetoric. It implies that Muslims are more likely to support this kind of action to start with. It implies a prejudice to suspicion against them and that they should have something to prove. Anyone who has friends who are Muslims would know that they are no more likely to support this action than you or I. It should be so plainly obvious that most Muslims oppose this heinous act that they should be no more obliged to make a group 'announcement' of their condemnation than any other group should be. It's just plainly obvious they condemn it and this whole air of 'PROVE IT, PROVE YOU THINK IT'S WRONG, SPEAK OUT' makes me writhe. It implies Muslims should be viewed as collaborators until proven otherwise when to anyone who actually knows one, it's absurd. It'd be absurd to think your local white, agnostic, Englishman of Catholic upbringing (for example) supports this act and should publicly denounce it to prove otherwise because there is no social prejudice that thinks he is more likely to to start with. There IS however such a social prejudice against Muslims. And I think that's wrong to start with.

And those are just four reasons why the whole lark of 'where is the outrage from the Muslim community' makes my teeth itch.

I read your post Sam but offer you this in reply. Not my words but IMO encapsulates the bigger picture.

A German's View on Islam - worth reading.

This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.


A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

gasser9 wrote:

I read your post Sam but offer you this in reply. Not my words but IMO encapsulates the bigger picture.

A German's View on Islam - worth reading.

This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.


A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Well... Is that post going to be banned?

Is 'what was good for the Cobi is good for the Gasser'..?

I hope not.

I have seen suggestions this thread should be nuked or binned.

I hope not.
If you can't even discuss it, the problem is not going away.

But if you want rid on a personal level... Then don't read and don't post. It will fade away like all threads do....

VillageGreen wrote:

There are many areas/places and parts of the larger Cities up the line where it is not safe to go through or go in to you if you happen to be white person and if this is the multicultural society that the Left and Liberal elite raved about,then something has gone terribly wrong somewhere down the line [this needs to addressed rather quickly i feel]. As these areas and places are usually hotbeds of extremism if the truth be known.

Where are these exactly. In the last six months I've walked through at night on my own some of the non-white majority areas of Bradford, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, London, Birmingham and Wolverhampton. I've never seen anything or felt in any way threatened.

The Red Star wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Civil unrest has happened for as long as we've had modern society.

You are full of shit Red Star - the Muslim council denonced it almost immediately.
22nd May
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This whole thread is incredibly sad. You know, what's the point - nuke the thread into orbit.

Wow a press release...must have missed that.

Indeed. I remember an American military leader in Iraq saying that when extremists were killing American troops, the community leaders were condemning the attacks to our faces but I could feel they didn't believe what they were saying.

It's similar with the moderate majority of Muslims in the UK. They can say what they like but unless they stand up to the extremists, expose the radicals and those being radicalised for what they really are, words are cheap. But they do need to be helped and encouraged by a much harder line from the British government.

The German's view on Islam today, propounded by 'gasser' is bang on the money imo.............. and I don't expect everyone to agree.

Maybe if the US and UK kept their noses out of these countries business and let them decide who rules their own people rather than US hand-picked puppets who allow their riches to be stolen, then maybe the Muslim extremists wouldn't be uprising all around the world.

You don't see the Yanks intervening in African countries that have nothing valuable to fight for.

If these people thousands of miles away want to live completely different to us then that's up to them. Let them get on with it.

The other issue is immigration and the UK needs to control that more stringently now, but for all immigrants not just Muslims. The UK won't though because it receives so much from the EU for allowing the amount of immigrants that it does. Next year there could be tens of thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians arriving and everyone will be complaining about gypsies, just like five years or so ago when it was the Polish who were the scourge of Britain. It's always someone else's fault.

Get the British troops out of these foreign lands and put a stop to the open borders we have and in two or three years it'll be bloody gypsies on the front page of the daily mail.

Greenjock wrote:

Maybe if the US and UK kept their noses out of these countries business and let them decide who rules their own people rather than US hand-picked puppets who allow their riches to be stolen, then maybe the Muslim extremists wouldn't be uprising all around the world.

You don't see the Yanks intervening in African countries that have nothing valuable to fight for.

If these people thousands of miles away want to live completely different to us then that's up to them. Let them get on with it.

The other issue is immigration and the UK needs to control that more stringently now, but for all immigrants not just Muslims. The UK won't though because it receives so much from the EU for allowing the amount of immigrants that it does. Next year there could be tens of thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians arriving and everyone will be complaining about gypsies, just like five years or so ago when it was the Polish who were the scourge of Britain. It's always someone else's fault.

Get the British troops out of these foreign lands and put a stop to the open borders we have and in two or three years it'll be bloody gypsies on the front page of the daily mail.

I'm not about to disagree with any of that in general.

90% of my work takes me away from Plymouth, so I'm more than just a little aware of what goes on outside of our Devon bubble.

Gassers post quoting the German fella is bang on in so many respects, and the overwhelming issue of radicalisation is borne of the FACT that a great many Muslim communities steadfastly refuse to integrate - in any way shape or form to a British way of life.

Quite simply, it is those communities that refuse to integrate, that are ( perhaps inadvertently) sowing the seeds of radicalisation against anything other than the Islamic faith.

Czarcasm wrote:

90% of my work takes me away from Plymouth, so I'm more than just a little aware of what goes on outside of our Devon bubble.

Gassers post quoting the German fella is bang on in so many respects, and the overwhelming issue of radicalisation is borne of the FACT that a great many Muslim communities steadfastly refuse to integrate - in any way shape or form to a British way of life.

Quite simply, it is those communities that refuse to integrate, that are sowing the seeds of radicalisation against anything other than the Islamic faith.

Tis true.

Imagine christians trying to march like this in Tehran or Islamabad [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

But Gasser's quote is a fiction. Google the alleged author's name and you will find an explanation including the suggestions that even the original article has been further altered to fit a particular world view.

After only a cursory glance it seems it was written by an Israeli extremist. It may be argued that Israeli's have a right to be fearful and angry about their situation (not a view I hold) but that doesn't justify its use in a propaganda war on here or in the real world.

The German guy would be mildly interesting if he was comparing like-for-like. As it is, he's comparing religion to state (many of them supposedly Christian ffs), and his main gripes otherwise are something about prayers in schools and halal food. The majority of Muslims in the world live in Bangladesh, Indonesia and India - I don't think we've got many issues with those countries. Having read some of the previous propaganda Germans of his generation were spouting about Jews, the similarities aren't lost on me.

Having lived in both London and Sydney at different times over the past few years, there are rough areas. There are also rough areas in Redruth, with white locals refusing to integrate into the world of work or contribute to society...which tells anyone with half a brain that it's probably more of a class/opportunity thing. I do know that I'd rather live in multi-cultural London than white Plymouth...

Greenjock wrote:

Tell me what were your views on Irish people living in England when soldiers, civilians and police were being shot and blown up on a regular basis? Did you want them all hung or just sent back where they feckin come from?

Calm down, you'll burst something! Given half my family hail from Sandy Row you can guess which side of the divide I will fall on. Never liked green me.

This isn't about Eire or Northern Ireland or indeed about immigration. I have not made any comments about immigration, you seem content on closing our borders to all and sundry, my gripe is with radical Islam in the UK, not hard to grasp is it. I support Great Britain, I do not condemn it.

Happy moderating, I am off to work