Cessation of Hostilities....until August

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

But again Angry, you're using the Nool argument of glory hunting. Few have been a more regular attendee than me over the decades at all levels, but I have always disliked the "part time" supporters thing that chimes up from the geeks at the bigger games. We know the culture we're talking about here. It doesn't just apply to sport, it applies to the music scene as well as most mass public entertainment vehicles.

Just what is wrong with wanting a better standard of entertainment to watch, what is wrong with wanting a full house, even if it does mean sharing a view with a few who don't know Paul Wotton from Brenda Wootton ?
I could suggest that there are already many, many regular emotional free riders tagging onto so called present 5000 hardcore Argyle who aren't that bothered with the football per se. I've talked to enough of them over the years. Many of them don't really get the football, it's just a reason to get on the beer or get away from the family. It's always been thus.
Too many Bishops, too much preaching.

But it is glory hunting in away i dont think you can call it anything else. Would the same people who go to sandy park still go if they were relegated or fighting relegation? i dont think most would especially down here.

Yes it is glory hunting and no the same people would not go if they were relegated.

Glad to see redstar posting on this forum along with tracky tiz sturts ect, good posters are just that in my opinion no matter who they support, lets be honest they've got to be better than rapson or bobi cudge

The Red Star wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

only because its premiership rugby at the end of the day not for the team itself.

I don't really follow that logic Angry. What's wrong with someone from Plymouth wanting to follow an Exeter rugby union team in the Premiership ? Just where does the tribal boundary of such matters kick in ? I would like to know.
If Argyle were ever to reach the Premiership, I'm sure it would be ok for people to come and support from Torquay and Exeter ? Sport clubs really do need to rid themselves of this superfan culture that is so inward looking.
I live in Plymouth, but I don't support Albion at all, and will travel to the Mennaye to watch the Pirates.
The "beating of the bounds" routine is a bit Pasoti and superfan if you ask me. No offence meant to you personally.

I agree. Chiefs support is from all over Devon. They come from Plymouth in large numbers and it is viewed locally as a Devon team to follow, not really Exeter or Plymouth. No tribal boundaries but probably the reason I watch football. I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further. Chiefs would not want any association with the football team because of the narrowing of fan base opportunities.

And you honestly think if Albion played better or at least more competitive exeter chiefs would have large numbers from Plymouth? do you the Exeter folk would still come watch raiders/devils if exeter had its own basketball team and the falcons reformed? would Plymouth Argyle have a good number of cornish fans if truro were in the football league? it is at the end of the day supply and demand on all fronts.

Tgwu wrote:

The Theatre Royal pulls in the Exeter Thespians

It is a good theatre. Tanners restaurant is excellent and the Barbican is a better night out than anything Exeter has to offer. I also think the Hoe is superb, especially the red and white tower. The truth is both Cities are completely different and are far enough apart to be different and close enough to enjoy...apart from on a derby day. Exeter gets away with it because it is small enough to be able to get things done and just big enough to have some spend on it and the motorway link helps. Plymouth is bigger in size and population and with the size comes double the crime and social problems...it isn't a dig, just a fact. I do think though Plymouth has been let down by local planners and councils and industry has been allowed to leave the City without a fight. Not sure why but I think it has happened

The Red Star wrote:

I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further.

Your comments of course take the argument of tribe and glory hunting and take it on to that most dastardly of words ... franchise. It just goes to show even I have my limits and understand that tribal sport following does have to have a geographical limit. Of course, the corporate proponents of the franchise wheeze only see demographic identity, and find geographic boundaries a bit distasteful... and they would of course.

This whole debate exposes football for what it is at professional level. Tribal stuff and nonsense. Rugby Union has only just got into the REAL competitive/league thing and as such is more free to adopt a slightly different approach.
And while it is not always as middle class as some would have you believe, certainly not down at Penzance that is where it most certainly is geographic, the game itself is not hamstrung in the same way as the football beating of the bounds. Rugby isn't about that.

As for the two cities Red, Plymouth is a naval city under gun sadly, and Exeter is a cathedral city, also sadly. The two are quite quite different, I agree.
I'm more of a small town or village man myself at heart. I hope Tring doesn't see that over in urbane far flung sock land.

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

only because its premiership rugby at the end of the day not for the team itself.

I don't really follow that logic Angry. What's wrong with someone from Plymouth wanting to follow an Exeter rugby union team in the Premiership ? Just where does the tribal boundary of such matters kick in ? I would like to know.
If Argyle were ever to reach the Premiership, I'm sure it would be ok for people to come and support from Torquay and Exeter ? Sport clubs really do need to rid themselves of this superfan culture that is so inward looking.
I live in Plymouth, but I don't support Albion at all, and will travel to the Mennaye to watch the Pirates.
The "beating of the bounds" routine is a bit Pasoti and superfan if you ask me. No offence meant to you personally.

I agree. Chiefs support is from all over Devon. They come from Plymouth in large numbers and it is viewed locally as a Devon team to follow, not really Exeter or Plymouth. No tribal boundaries but probably the reason I watch football. I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further. Chiefs would not want any association with the football team because of the narrowing of fan base opportunities.

And you honestly think if Albion played better or at least more competitive exeter chiefs would have large numbers from Plymouth? do you the Exeter folk would still come watch raiders/devils if exeter had its own basketball team and the falcons reformed? would Plymouth Argyle have a good number of cornish fans if truro were in the football league? it is at the end of the day supply and demand on all fronts.

No I dont mate. I think if Albion had the same set up, Chiefs crowds would be mantained because they market correctly and would get the footfall elsewhere. If albion was a premiership club, or indeed the irates there crowds would be similar if not more than Chiefs. I just think Chiefs got in first and saw an opportunity. Land was sold easily and land was purchased easily and the Chiefs have been given the green light by local councils

It is supply and demand, once again I agree, also it is about taking the opportunity and spending to make it work. ECFC will never have the spend and the local council hate the club, at present it appears your Council realise that they need Argyle and need a successful Argyle, however your owners are doing things on the cheap it would appear and are loathe to spend any of their own money. That said you have been quick to resign players and the signing of McCormick shows intent to get promoted...no waiting til pre season.

worried of penzance wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further.

Your comments of course take the argument of tribe and glory hunting and take it on to that most dastardly of words ... franchise. It just goes to show even I have my limits and understand that tribal sport following does have to have a geographical limit. Of course, the corporate proponents of the franchise wheeze only see demographic identity, and find geographic boundaries a bit distasteful... and they would of course.

This whole debate exposes football for what it is at professional level. Tribal stuff and nonsense. Rugby Union has only just got into the REAL competitive/league thing and as such is more free to adopt a slightly different approach.
And while it is not always as middle class as some would have you believe, certainly not down at Penzance that is where it most certainly is geographic, the game itself is not hamstrung in the same way as the football beating of the bounds. Rugby isn't about that.

As for the two cities Red, Plymouth is a naval city under gun sadly, and Exeter is a cathedral city, also sadly. The two are quite quite different, I agree.
I'm more of a small town or village man myself at heart. I hope Tring doesn't see that over in urbane far flung sock land.

This line sums it all up for me and the word sadly is the key. Growing up in the 60;s and 70s in a Cathedral City meant restrictions and no youth Clubs. Some archaic laws surrounding Cathedral Cities also meant no strip clubs etc etc... entertainment was the work of the devil. Will have to look up why exactly but I do recall always being told that because it was a Cathedral City we couldn't have this in Exeter or that in Exeter. Strange

The Red Star wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further.

Your comments of course take the argument of tribe and glory hunting and take it on to that most dastardly of words ... franchise. It just goes to show even I have my limits and understand that tribal sport following does have to have a geographical limit. Of course, the corporate proponents of the franchise wheeze only see demographic identity, and find geographic boundaries a bit distasteful... and they would of course.

This whole debate exposes football for what it is at professional level. Tribal stuff and nonsense. Rugby Union has only just got into the REAL competitive/league thing and as such is more free to adopt a slightly different approach.
And while it is not always as middle class as some would have you believe, certainly not down at Penzance that is where it most certainly is geographic, the game itself is not hamstrung in the same way as the football beating of the bounds. Rugby isn't about that.

As for the two cities Red, Plymouth is a naval city under gun sadly, and Exeter is a cathedral city, also sadly. The two are quite quite different, I agree.
I'm more of a small town or village man myself at heart. I hope Tring doesn't see that over in urbane far flung sock land.

This line sums it all up for me and the word sadly is the key. Growing up in the 60;s and 70s in a Cathedral City meant restrictions and no youth Clubs. Some archaic laws surrounding Cathedral Cities also meant no strip clubs etc etc... entertainment was the work of the devil. Will have to look up why exactly but I do recall always being told that because it was a Cathedral City we couldn't have this in Exeter or that in Exeter. Strange

Very true. Truro was the same for quite a while. Restrictions on just about everything.

If you wanted to see a stripper back in the day you had to hand over your pocket money to Bennys mum. Traumatic teenage years I can tell thee.

Penz wrote:

I'm more of a small town or village man myself at heart. I hope Tring doesn't see that over in urbane far flung sock land.


Ha ha ! I raised my family in a small provincial town of circa 13k population, 30 miles west of London, nestled in the Chiltern Hills. As a town, Tring has a lively music and arts scene and the sports clubs all punch above their weight. It's really all down to the people living in the town, their talents and desire and a large percentage of outsiders have made the town their home, bringing with them a diversity of backgrounds and culture.
Compared to the local villages we are a cosmopolitan lot and those lacking in the ability to 'mix it' and take as well as give, tend to drift off to the village clubs, to be less challenged and become big fish in small ponds.

Rather like what's happening at Home Park

Oh Argyle are certainly going down the village route, that's for sure, or more accurately the quaint cream Tea route under Brent, but I don't think comparisons with a "small town 30 miles from London" wash with me... rather too much romantic tosh there for my liking. For all intents and purposes in this present national set up, places like Tring are a part of the London project in all but name and 30 miles. It will have the same basic culture and dreams, they'll mostly take their inflated wad out of the city environs daily and it will try to make those dreams come true at the expense of everyone else outside of the "City state" of the South East, just about the richest on the planet. I know my philosophy and economics.... and no thanks to Aldersley and his pedestrian bias, handed down for him on tablets of stone to teach us ever so thankful parochial peasants.

I'm a sucker for a spot of 'tosh' dear boy. I like seeing potential maximised, even if it is ultimately futile.

knecht wrote:

Is anyone old enough to have known the Pennycross stadium where they had speedway & stock-car racing (including the South-west's very own world champion from Notter Bridge - I can't remember his name)?

Johnny Marquand - my hero when I was still a puppy.

I to have watched the mighty Marquand of Notter Bridge race at Pennycross

The Red Star wrote:

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

The Red Star wrote:

worried of penzance wrote:

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

only because its premiership rugby at the end of the day not for the team itself.

I don't really follow that logic Angry. What's wrong with someone from Plymouth wanting to follow an Exeter rugby union team in the Premiership ? Just where does the tribal boundary of such matters kick in ? I would like to know.
If Argyle were ever to reach the Premiership, I'm sure it would be ok for people to come and support from Torquay and Exeter ? Sport clubs really do need to rid themselves of this superfan culture that is so inward looking.
I live in Plymouth, but I don't support Albion at all, and will travel to the Mennaye to watch the Pirates.
The "beating of the bounds" routine is a bit Pasoti and superfan if you ask me. No offence meant to you personally.

I agree. Chiefs support is from all over Devon. They come from Plymouth in large numbers and it is viewed locally as a Devon team to follow, not really Exeter or Plymouth. No tribal boundaries but probably the reason I watch football. I think in a number of years they may even drop the Exeter tag and maybe include Devon or just Chiefs on ts own. It will widen the appeal further. Chiefs would not want any association with the football team because of the narrowing of fan base opportunities.

And you honestly think if Albion played better or at least more competitive exeter chiefs would have large numbers from Plymouth? do you the Exeter folk would still come watch raiders/devils if exeter had its own basketball team and the falcons reformed? would Plymouth Argyle have a good number of cornish fans if truro were in the football league? it is at the end of the day supply and demand on all fronts.

No I dont mate. I think if Albion had the same set up, Chiefs crowds would be mantained because they market correctly and would get the footfall elsewhere. If albion was a premiership club, or indeed the irates there crowds would be similar if not more than Chiefs. I just think Chiefs got in first and saw an opportunity. Land was sold easily and land was purchased easily and the Chiefs have been given the green light by local councils

It is supply and demand, once again I agree, also it is about taking the opportunity and spending to make it work. ECFC will never have the spend and the local council hate the club, at present it appears your Council realise that they need Argyle and need a successful Argyle, however your owners are doing things on the cheap it would appear and are loathe to spend any of their own money. That said you have been quick to resign players and the signing of McCormick shows intent to get promoted...no waiting til pre season.

Albion has everything available to them to reach the premiership ie the stadium isn't too far off the 10000 requirements and can be extend beyond that if needed the fanbase and interest etc etc just not the money which is hammering them on and off the pitch sadly. But i feel one day they will reach the holy landsame for the pirates too, if they get their stadium they keep harking on about they would be a success in the prem.

As for Argyle the council saved the club by buying the stadium as James couldn't "cough" afford it "cough cough" so i think they do realise the importance of argyle and what it does for the city.

Happy Daze wrote:

I to have watched the mighty Marquand of Notter Bridge race at Pennycross

I bought a van from him once... I don't know why I did that.

I was part of the Plymouth City thing at Pennycross Stadium. Strange stuff for a teenager. Bit of a hoot really... the odd character or two. I've had enough of "characters" these days, unless vetted carefully. They're often self-centered.

Pennycross Festival - sometime latish 60's. The first "Festival" i went to. All I can remember is that it was rubbish, sound-system appalling, very poorly attended, cold and the Nashville Teens played. Other than that it was good.

I was hooked on Speedway as a lad and I looked forward to the speedway at Pennycross on a Thursday night far more than the greens plus it was every week not every other week.
Jack Scott, Cliff Cox, Jimmy Squibb, Maurie Mattingley, Chris Blewett, Chris Julian, Ivor Toms all gone now to the cinder track in the sky but the smell of the dope lingers on.
Like most things in Plymouth it was poorly supported and doomed to inevitable failure but the magical memories linger on.

And then there was cycle speedway. (But not at Pennycross).

knecht wrote:

And then there was cycle speedway. (But not at Pennycross).

Do you mean that track at Lipson, beside the railway line?

I think there was one in Lipson. The one I knew was at Knowle Battery in West Park. There were others around the area. There was a league.

Exciting & dangerous stuff.

There was, it was between the wall of the railway and what is now, Lipson School. The track was made from old bits of coal and coke from the railway yard and Mother gave me a clout for riding my bike on it and coming home covered in black coal dust. It was overgrown at the time and that would have been about the mid 60s I think.

http://www.cyclespeedwayhistory.org.uk/2183.shtml

Highest attendance [/url]6,000 people!!!!

[url=http://www.plymouthdevils.co/cycle-speedway.html]Blimey! It was bigger than I thought.

I used to go & watch them racing at Knowle Battery when I was a kid.

Isn't it a shame that these things have been replaced with computers, XBoxes and television. That's progress I guess and, I'm getting old!

Have shufti at this at this interesting article it mentions Knowle Battery speedway

Linkity link