Stockport County

About to go part-time

They were in the championship about 10 years ago but seem to have been on a slippery slope ever since,a lot of financial problems involved.Shame really,i quite liked Edgeley Park on my only visit there,proper football ground.Anyone remember that massive striker,about 8ft 10 inches tall who always used to score against Argyle-Kevin Francis i think he was called.

Didn't be completely tear us a new arsehole under shilton? I remember going there in the Fa cup and my companion complained the place looked like Snozzle!

Just another example of how being a 'big' club in the conference is no guarentee that you'll be getting promoted back to the league any time soon. This is especially true if you've had financial troubles and have a board who don't know how to run a football club. Argyle beware......

What he said, hope you're watching Brent and cronies.

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

Just another example of how being a 'big' club in the conference is no guarentee that you'll be getting promoted back to the league any time soon. This is especially true if you've had financial troubles and have a board who don't know how to run a football club. Argyle beware......

are you compearing argo to stockport county?

their superfans would blame apathetic mancs

Hugh Watt wrote:

Didn't be completely tear us a new arsehole under shilton? I remember going there in the Fa cup and my companion complained the place looked like Snozzle!

Kevin Francis was 9ft 6 and completely destroyed us under Shiltsie. One of his strides was about 4m. He didn't run as such, it was more of a gallop. Seeing him next to Martin Barlow was just bizarre.

Sad to hear how Stockport have fallen so far from grace.
Around the time Shilton was here they often seemed just that bit ahead of Argyle (apart from our win at Edgeley park thanks to Steve Castle's hat trick in our nearly season)

Quite ironic how Kevin Francis was a better finisher with his feet than his head :/

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

One example of a club gone tits up doesn't necessarily mean that private ownership is all bad. County have been in terminal decline for years.

An opposite example would be that the right way to achieve success is to land yourself an Abramovich or a rich Arab, cos sooner or later it will win you the league.

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

I always find it a bit sad when someone who purports to be a football supporter can apparently take pleasure in the demise of another club, I 4-1 struggled to take pleasure in the situation down the road, don't get me wronng, relegation to the Conference would be a wonderful thing to behold, but County are not a rlocal rival who are are suffering financially despite dragging in some crowds of late that the money grubbing Directors of ECFC would love to see turn up, mainly so they could upgrade from Bollinger at their next freebie.

County have battled on against the odds for years, I wonder how we should have done had we had six and sometimes eight Premiership clubs closer to us than Plymouth?

I guess some are just happy for other fans to suffer just so that they might come slightly closer to proving their point, the point is of course not even close to proven, just take a look at the other end of the table where Mansfield are about to resume their spot in the FL with a brand new stand that the Gargs would be only to happy to see tacked on to Gnome Park instead of the Ken Doddesque aberration currently going through planning.

Mansfield, private ownership, new stand and promotion, not to mention a cup run.

Muff, private ownership, nice new stand for nuttin and looking up on the playing side, perhaps.

ECFC, partially owned by the fans who get fook all say in what goes on, half the ground a disgrace/ health hazard/ falling down while the team chokes in the run in due to, yes you've guessed it, a lack of funding.

Let's have a look at the other socio egineered, 'Fan Run Clubs'. Wycombe, skint, struggling even lower than us, AFC Womble, minted apparently by vying with five others for that last relegation spot, ECFC, potless chokers who will struggle to emulate even this seasons moderate level of success when Jamie C's goals nip up the M5 to join the Gas. Then let's look at all the clubs in the frame for promotion throughout the League, all of them privately owned and funded, some to the tune of many millions, ok, maybe I'll cough uo Yeovil, perhaps Gary Johnson is a footballing genius.

scarborough went down a division too, i think those two are only sides to be relegated 'properly' from the conference having been league clubs.........

halifax & chester & boston went down the divisions for different reasons

Little off topic now, but thought I'd mention that Kevin Francis is now a cop in Calgary, Canada. Went to have a look at his house with view to buy, unfortunately he had shirts from all previous clubs framed in the basement. This included the scummers of east devon - put me off the place completely. Shows how footballers wages must have changed so much? I mean he was a decent lower league player plus a short time at Brum in the top division but now has to work a full time job. Now must the scare the shit out of local hoolies....

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I always find it a bit sad when someone who purports to be a football supporter can apparently take pleasure in the demise of another club...

Not as sad as someone who grasps for strawman arguments simply in order to have a dig. Nothing I posted indicates, or was intended to indicate, "pleasure in the demise of another club". I do take pleasure in the fact that Snape's criticism of the Trust model has come back to bite him on the arse, but I would have preferred that to have happened in a different manner, so spare me your usual sanctimonious cobblers. (BTW, "Purport"? Are you Peter Jones in disguise?)

Quote :

I 4-1 struggled to take pleasure in the situation down the road, don't get me wronng
relegation to the Conference would be a wonderful thing to behold...

So wishing for Argyle's relegation, with the dangerous consequences that might have given the context of Argyle's current ownership and the brutally competitive nature of the Conference, is not "taking pleasure in the demise of another club"? Well unlike yourself, in a perfect world I wouldn't want Argyle in the Conference at all, so I'm not going to take any lessons from you about attitudes to the misfortunes of other clubs. The only reason I'm torn over the issue at all is that relegation to the Conference would undermine the position of Brent and his cronies.

Quote :

but County are not a rlocal rival who are are suffering financially despite dragging in some crowds of late that the money grubbing Directors of ECFC would love to see turn up, mainly so they could upgrade from Bollinger at their next freebie...

They haven't had bigger crowds "of late", they've had one big crowd for their last home game against Dartford, which is hardly suprising given the importance of the match. That is their only crowd above 4'000 recently - they've only had four gates above 4'000 all season. Their three home games prior to Dartford were all below 4'000 and for two of those barely over 3'000. This season they've even sunk below 2'000 on one occasion - their average gate appears to be a little less than we achieved in the Conference. Admittedly you have to take into account their appalling recent history and it's questionable whether we would have achieved similar gates in a similar scenario, but the idea that our "money grubbing directors" would "love" to see crowds of three and four thousand, is ridiculous in the extreme given that most of our attendances have been around that level anyway and that our highest gate is bigger than theirs. I realise that their gates stack up favourably pound-for-pound, but that is not the patently false argument you were making.

Quote :

County have battled on against the odds for years, I wonder how we should have done had we had six and sometimes eight Premiership clubs closer to us than Plymouth?...

If we were in the North-West, or in a similar area that is more of a football hotbed than Devon, with the advantages that flow from that, then I doubt that either ourselves (or indeed any club) would have done any worse, all thing being equal. Stockport's proximity to other Premier League clubs is not a historical accident - there are more PL clubs there because it is a far more significant football area in the first place. There is simply no meaningful comparison that can be made between a club in Stockport's location and one in the football backwater of Devon. In any case proximity to successful clubs can have benefits as well as advantages. Stockport are where they are because of historic mismangement, not because of competition with Premier League clubs. Your (false) contention was that they were pulling in crowds that we would envy regardless of their more illustrious neighbours, so you can't have it both ways.

Quote :

I guess some are just happy for other fans to suffer just so that they might come slightly closer to proving their point...

Strawman redux.

Quote :

the point is of course not even close to proven, just take a look at the other end of the table where Mansfield are about to resume their spot in the FL with a brand new stand...

Paid for with loans (a la their squad) from One-Call insurance, their owner's company. If he pulls out at any point there doesn't seem to be any way for them to continue in the style to which they've recently become accustomed, at which point they would probably be in the sh*t again. I think I'll wait and see how that turns out before I concede that the case of Mansfield disproves my point.

Quote :

(a stand)the Gargs would be only to happy to see tacked on to Gnome Park instead of the Ken Doddesque aberration current..ly going through planning.

The Ken Dodderesque aberration which you keep telling them they should be grateful for? I guess you always were a contrarian.

Quote :

Mansfield, private ownership, new stand and promotion, not to mention a cup run.

As I say, all bought and paid for with big loans from the owner's company (i.e £2 million for the stand).

Quote :

Muff, private ownership, nice new stand for nuttin...

Is this the same "nice new stand" that you described as a "Ken Dodderesque aberration" in the previous sentence? Wow. In terms of contradicting yourself, that's a work of art right there.

Quote :

and looking up on the playing side, perhaps.

Two relegation battles in succession under private ownership. They've been on a decent run, but let's just see where Brent takes the football side in future. My information is that he's doing "fook all" on that front, to use your pet phrase, so I'm not as confident as you seem to be that they can look forward to a bright new future.

Quote :

ECFC, partially owned by the fans who get fook all say in what goes on...

Except voting against a groundshare of course. That said it's absolutely correct that the Trust/board have been poor at communicating with/involving the fans. However that is an issue with our particular Trust and our particular board and not a feature of fan ownership in itself.

Quote :

of half the ground a disgrace/ health hazard/ falling down...

Which is in that state as a consequence of the poor decisions of our former private owners.

Quote :

...while the team chokes in the run in due to, yes you've guessed it, a lack of funding...

The team hasn't "choked". It's fallen out of the reckoning principally due to a serious injury crisis. You could argue that lack of funding has made it difficult for us to have suitable replacements, but on the other hand we will still finish above more privately owned clubs than will finish above us.

Quote :

Let's have a look at the other socio egineered, 'Fan Run Clubs'. Wycombe, skint, struggling even lower than us...

They were skint before the Trust took over. That's how the Trust gained control in the first place for chrissakes. They've only been a Trust run club for less than a year anyway, so its a bit premature to start drawing conclusions.

Quote :

AFC Womble, minted apparently by vying with five others for that last relegation spot...

And who prior to this year, achieved five promotions in ten years. (Chester aren't doing too badly on that front either).

Quote :

ECFC, potless chokers who will struggle to emulate even this seasons moderate level of success when Jamie C's goals nip up the M5 to join the Gas...

Chokers who have done better than predicted by the bookies pre-season, despite having had to drastically rebuild the team; Chokers who have had more success since becoming Trust owned than in at least the ten years prior to that (and possibly even longer depending on how you look at it). Chokers who in 2011 achieved their highest League finish since 1980, when the playing field was far more level due to tied contracts, revenue sharing and a far more even distribution of money throughout the Leagues. Adjusting for inflation, Alan Ball spent five times as much money on Sean Taylor than Tisdale has spent in total in five years. In fact I doubt there are very many third-tier clubs of any description who could pay half-a million odd (adjusted for inflation) for a centre-half these days.

Quote :

Then let's look at all the clubs in the frame for promotion throughout the League, all of them privately owned and funded, some to the tune of many millions...

And most of them being heavily indebted to their owners. In a small number of cases, such as Steve Gibson writing off £80 million-odd (IIRC) these loans are relatively soft, but that isn't the normal state of affairs. Of course we could always look at the great majority of the other clubs in the Football League not in with a chance of promotion, some of whom are on the brink of disaster with more in a precarious position, mostly by spending more than they can afford in a bid for success, or even by simply trying to keep up with their rivals. The BBC conducted a survey of Football League chairman recently which showed two-thirds of chairmen being concerned about the state of club finances in the League as a whole. Only this Saturday there was an interview on Sky Sports News with an economics professor specialising in football finances about the QPR bank loan. A the end of the interview the subject was broadened out to the state of football finances in general, at which point he described the financial situation in English football as extremely worrying, or words to that effect.

If that's the prescription for success you can keep it.

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

Czarcasm wrote:

One example of a club gone tits up doesn't necessarily mean that private ownership is all bad. County have been in terminal decline for years.

That would be true if it were only one club - but of course it's very far from being one club.

Quote :

An opposite example would be that the right way to achieve success is to land yourself an Abramovich or a rich Arab, cos sooner or later it will win you the league.

Not really, since those examples are a recent aberration. Precious few clubs in the world are or ever have been run along those lines. In fact far more clubs are fan-owned, including the same Bayern Munich that took apart Barcelona the other day. There is actually open contempt among most of German football for the sugar-daddy EPL model - the Bundesliga have specifically stated that they don't want German football to go down that road. Even Borussia Dortmund, who are the first German club to be floated on the Stock Market (the remainder of the "50+1" at least) have the majority of shares owned by fans. The Borussia Dortmund Chairman now describes the flotation as a mistake anyway. Even so, the club has still retained the sort of community focus that you can only dream of under the Reluctant Bidder.

Notwithstanding the above, spending the dirty money of a human-rights abusing arab dictatorship, or a Russian robber baron who has spent time in prison, who has admitted to corruption in open court and who has been accused of acquiring his fortune by gangsterism and ordering the murder of anyone who stood in the way of his rapacious acquisition of privatised Soviet state assets, is about as far from my idea of "the right way to achieve success" as it's possible to get.

Fook me Jabbs, you're a relentless dissector ain't ya?

As it goes, I'm pretty sure if an Arab or Russian billionaire rocked up at Sid James and genuinely decided they were going to bank roll you all the way to the Prem, you'd enjoy the ride just like the other 99.9%. Either that or your morality knows no bounds and you'd be in a minority of One.

Just what is the point of having a private owner if he has stated clearly he has no intention whatsoever of investing his own money into the club ? No point whatsoever, and is bound to result in stasis, and as Alan Partridge would say, leave us moribund. At least a club owned by the fans would have pride and it's destiny in their own hands..... that's important.

And yes, I remember Francis, a real thorn in our side. Reminds me of the days when opposing teams came down and you would for at least a few years know what players would turn out for them and the kind of game to expect ... I liked that continuity and competition. Nowadays, you don't even get to see them wear a kit that remotely represents their identity.... just two groups of men from somewhere but not here or Stockport... don't ya just love mobility of labour and the way the ludicrous loan system has ruined much of football.

Very sad for Stockport County. At some stage more clubs will go that way .... professional football will go the way of the High Street ,,,, and probably the Big Society as well if the likes of Brenty has his way. Football clubs are an anachronism in some eyes, and proper full time employment is for property developers, not for any old oik kicking a football around. If you give the excutive class like Brent a chance, you'll end up with a football industry mimicking the banking industry, there'll be the monopoly of "the big six" and little else... it's inevitable with their "rational" mind set.... they don't get football at all.

The plan has always been , to keep the natives under control and doing their bucket rattling, while the owner gets on with his real reluctant business.

The likes of Nool and Bean Head were 'bought' with silly hats n titles , plus the incentive of finding investment [enter Nikkkk] and they might even be handed the club on a plate, once the development has been done and the club is a boxed in , eternal minnow. These guys don't care as long as they are in control.

It's the old kids let loose in a sweet shop scenario. The reluctant bidder has played a blinder................ for himself.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

jabba the gut ecfc wrote:

Good to see proof of the way in which ditching fan ownership for the supposed spondoolicks of private owners is the way to go. Worked wonders for Stockport County hasn't it?

I always find it a bit sad when someone who purports to be a football supporter can apparently take pleasure in the demise of another club, I 4-1 struggled to take pleasure in the situation down the road, don't get me wronng, relegation to the Conference would be a wonderful thing to behold, but County are not a rlocal rival who are are suffering financially despite dragging in some crowds of late that the money grubbing Directors of ECFC would love to see turn up, mainly so they could upgrade from Bollinger at their next freebie.

County have battled on against the odds for years, I wonder how we should have done had we had six and sometimes eight Premiership clubs closer to us than Plymouth?

I guess some are just happy for other fans to suffer just so that they might come slightly closer to proving their point, the point is of course not even close to proven, just take a look at the other end of the table where Mansfield are about to resume their spot in the FL with a brand new stand that the Gargs would be only to happy to see tacked on to Gnome Park instead of the Ken Doddesque aberration currently going through planning.

Mansfield, private ownership, new stand and promotion, not to mention a cup run.

Muff, private ownership, nice new stand for nuttin and looking up on the playing side, perhaps.

ECFC, partially owned by the fans who get fook all say in what goes on, half the ground a disgrace/ health hazard/ falling down while the team chokes in the run in due to, yes you've guessed it, a lack of funding.

Let's have a look at the other socio egineered, 'Fan Run Clubs'. Wycombe, skint, struggling even lower than us, AFC Womble, minted apparently by vying with five others for that last relegation spot, ECFC, potless chokers who will struggle to emulate even this seasons moderate level of success when Jamie C's goals nip up the M5 to join the Gas. Then let's look at all the clubs in the frame for promotion throughout the League, all of them privately owned and funded, some to the tune of many millions, ok, maybe I'll cough uo Yeovil, perhaps Gary Johnson is a footballing genius.

Hold up! When I said similar about the state of your ground you said I was a plastic. What is the point of you on this forum?