Boxing Day Cold Turk-quay - Match Thread

Us 'fans' are cash cows there to be milked by WHOEVER the owner is.
brent has the most important asset THE LAND.

so youre not pro brent in the 1st paragraph then you are in the final one ......

MAKE UP YOUR MIND !

ps dont swear no need for it. it also shows lack of vocabliary

Ron Acker.Arrowsmith,Tool and Plebb This is your club,and what a right cock up yous made of it,

Lord Aviva wrote:

Us 'fans' are cash cows there to be milked by WHOEVER the owner is.
brent has the most important asset THE LAND.

so youre not pro brent in the 1st paragraph then you are in the final one ......

MAKE UP YOUR MIND !

ps dont swear no need for it. it also shows lack of vocabliary

Not at all, small selective swearing can be found in many fine vocabularies. I'll take care not to swear directly in replies to you though, I'm nice like that.

As I said, I'm pro-Brent staying on as owner as there are no better options, but I'm not pro the way he's running the club. Is that really a massively difficult concept? I agree Brent has the most important asset in the land, I don't know where I said otherwise. I also clearly stated that whoever the owner is they were wanting to make money- a lot of it will come from the fans yes, again I can't recall saying otherwise.

Brent is poison and must be driven from the club

The mini run of no defeats has surely beyond doubt seen Fletcher safe through to the summer at least. Perhaps even the DOF will not now be foremost in Brent's mind. Backing in the transfer market will confirm or deny that together with the strength or otherwise of our financial position.

we are kings of the 1-1 draws

GreenSam wrote:

Lord Aviva wrote:

sam, no you havent.
you have ALWAYS worshipped brent.

Bollocks.

What do you mean when you say I haven't seen the bigger picture? Do you mean I haven't held the same opinion as you? If so, guilty as charged but that doesn't mean I haven't got an opinion on the bigger picture.

I am not pro-Brent now or anti-Brent. I think if he pulled out without anyone to take over then we'd be fecked. I want him to stay as owner unless we can find someone better which we won't. If that makes me a Brent-worshipper, then again I am guilty as charged.

I don't go in for worshiping owners. I accept that all, bar the odd philanthropic/bored few are looking to make a profit out of it so all I can do is judge their efficiency to run the club well whilst doing just that. What do I think of Brent? I think comments that "at least he's running the club in a way that we won't get into shit again" aren't accurate. As I've said many times, his mistake is that he's let the malaise around the football operations in the club develop to such a large extent that we are hemorrhaging money so much that we're likely to make a big loss this year. I don't buy into the "non-investing" tagline, I think "had to invest too much because he put faith in the wrong people" is more like it. I don't think Brent's first year and a bit can be pained as a success. The football side of things were sufficient to keep us up but not to push on. The fact that the football now is so inadequate means that we're losing money at such a rate that we'd be done for if he pulled out.

His business plan is sound enough in theory-we don't need big money to get out of this league. He needs to do two things and they're what he should have already done months ago. One, replace the management team with a better one. Two, appoint a full-time CEO and financial director who have a much firmer hand on the rudder in how the club is run. It's just plodding along at the moment. I remember how optimistic I felt that Autumn day when it was announced that the club was saved from liquidation- I genuinely had the highest of hopes that we'd be set for another 2001-2004 esque spell of success. JB said all the right things, talked all the right talk and genuinely seemed an entirely straight talker without any of the business-speak that Todd was so infested with. That's why I feel so let down that his regime so far has been such a flop. I don't think all of i has been his fault exactly, but most of it is indirectly his fault because it's stuff he could do things about and re-form. I hate the fact that the boardroom which may have been a world class board in all of its parts, has been such a bollocks in practice with people having to do about 3 different jobs each, some of them seemingly not being very good at it and the main football people at the club not being listened to. I hate the fact that such a farce has been made of the budget, spending a lot of money on such average players rather than fewer but better players. I hate the fact that Fletcher is still manager after proving long ago that in my opinion he wasn't good enough. I wish he could structure the football side of it with a chairman to oversee long-term targets, a CEO who knows his stuff with a free reign over football decisions to run the club on a week by week basis and a financial director who can make a realistic budget. I wish we had a new manager (or if we can afford one perhaps a head coach/DOF combo) to replace Fletcher.

The whole line about "a BSP club would be cheaper for him"... I don't buy it. Not because I'm sucked in by some propaganda. I've considered it, I just don't buy it. For one, he could have set a much lower budget than he did (and Christ knows where Fletcher would have us if he did). He HAS had to pay a lot of money this season right? He would have had to pay less if we were successful as the crowds would be higher. He has been prepared to advocate the spending of a budget that has cost him financially, he didn't have to do that. Why do I think he's spending money on us? Not necessarily because I think he's caught the green bug in any huge way (although he does attend games much more than the majority of other directors in the past so I guess he must get something out of it) but because I think he wants the club to do well as he owns it. He owns a higher percentage of PAFC than he does of the surrounding land. I think it's in his interests for both to be successful and it's difficult to argue against the fact that he could have parted with less money than he has, if he so wished.

Just because I think it's in his interests for the club to be successful, doesn't mean I think he can make it happen by clicking his fingers though. As I said, I think the management of the club, selected by him have made a bollocks of the season and the people who know their stuff more imho aren't making enough decisions. I don't think Brent is intrinsically bad for the club but nor do I think the management of this first year has been competent enough-especially when I was fool enough to have such high hopes. So where from here? If someone better takes over, as I said at the start of the post, all well and dandy but if not then our only hope is that JB learns from his mistakes. No-one now realistically will take over and take on our debts. We just need to hope and campaign for better decisions to be made, those decisions are the ones I have detailed more than once in this post.

I'm pro-Brent only to the extent that I want him to be our owner as I think the most likely alternative to him not being our owner is administration. I don't worship him and I'm frankly disappointed by his time in charge of the club so far. I think it's in his best interests for us to succeed but he needs to buck up, sort out the off pitch and on pitch debacle for that to be possible.

What do you think about his choice of 'real friends' and their activities, both drum banging/bucket rattling and devious/bullying ?
Will they ultimately help or hinder ?

Dougie wrote:

The mini run of no defeats has surely beyond doubt seen Fletcher safe through to the summer at least. Perhaps even the DOF will not now be foremost in Brent's mind. Backing in the transfer market will confirm or deny that together with the strength or otherwise of our financial position.

They will need a DOF in January, to hawk Tyler Harvey around to all the big clubs. Without one in place I could see TH moving for an undisclosed fee of around £50k with no add-ons. You need particular experience to be able to buy and sell players for Argyle.

Buying a player has to be from non-league football like Griffiths and PCH. They must be totally ineffectual for around 80 minutes per match, and then when we're two down, they spring into life for a brief cameo.

Selling players at Argyle is a tricky one. Sell a fans favourite and announce he has a niggly little knee injury thereby halving his sale value. If this is not carried out properly it will all end with tears and we'll end up keepeing the shit and selling the decent players for peanuts with no add-ons.

Wouldn't want that to happen would we?

Tringreen wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Lord Aviva wrote:

sam, no you havent.
you have ALWAYS worshipped brent.

Bollocks.

What do you mean when you say I haven't seen the bigger picture? Do you mean I haven't held the same opinion as you? If so, guilty as charged but that doesn't mean I haven't got an opinion on the bigger picture.

I am not pro-Brent now or anti-Brent. I think if he pulled out without anyone to take over then we'd be fecked. I want him to stay as owner unless we can find someone better which we won't. If that makes me a Brent-worshipper, then again I am guilty as charged.

I don't go in for worshiping owners. I accept that all, bar the odd philanthropic/bored few are looking to make a profit out of it so all I can do is judge their efficiency to run the club well whilst doing just that. What do I think of Brent? I think comments that "at least he's running the club in a way that we won't get into shit again" aren't accurate. As I've said many times, his mistake is that he's let the malaise around the football operations in the club develop to such a large extent that we are hemorrhaging money so much that we're likely to make a big loss this year. I don't buy into the "non-investing" tagline, I think "had to invest too much because he put faith in the wrong people" is more like it. I don't think Brent's first year and a bit can be pained as a success. The football side of things were sufficient to keep us up but not to push on. The fact that the football now is so inadequate means that we're losing money at such a rate that we'd be done for if he pulled out.

His business plan is sound enough in theory-we don't need big money to get out of this league. He needs to do two things and they're what he should have already done months ago. One, replace the management team with a better one. Two, appoint a full-time CEO and financial director who have a much firmer hand on the rudder in how the club is run. It's just plodding along at the moment. I remember how optimistic I felt that Autumn day when it was announced that the club was saved from liquidation- I genuinely had the highest of hopes that we'd be set for another 2001-2004 esque spell of success. JB said all the right things, talked all the right talk and genuinely seemed an entirely straight talker without any of the business-speak that Todd was so infested with. That's why I feel so let down that his regime so far has been such a flop. I don't think all of i has been his fault exactly, but most of it is indirectly his fault because it's stuff he could do things about and re-form. I hate the fact that the boardroom which may have been a world class board in all of its parts, has been such a bollocks in practice with people having to do about 3 different jobs each, some of them seemingly not being very good at it and the main football people at the club not being listened to. I hate the fact that such a farce has been made of the budget, spending a lot of money on such average players rather than fewer but better players. I hate the fact that Fletcher is still manager after proving long ago that in my opinion he wasn't good enough. I wish he could structure the football side of it with a chairman to oversee long-term targets, a CEO who knows his stuff with a free reign over football decisions to run the club on a week by week basis and a financial director who can make a realistic budget. I wish we had a new manager (or if we can afford one perhaps a head coach/DOF combo) to replace Fletcher.

The whole line about "a BSP club would be cheaper for him"... I don't buy it. Not because I'm sucked in by some propaganda. I've considered it, I just don't buy it. For one, he could have set a much lower budget than he did (and Christ knows where Fletcher would have us if he did). He HAS had to pay a lot of money this season right? He would have had to pay less if we were successful as the crowds would be higher. He has been prepared to advocate the spending of a budget that has cost him financially, he didn't have to do that. Why do I think he's spending money on us? Not necessarily because I think he's caught the green bug in any huge way (although he does attend games much more than the majority of other directors in the past so I guess he must get something out of it) but because I think he wants the club to do well as he owns it. He owns a higher percentage of PAFC than he does of the surrounding land. I think it's in his interests for both to be successful and it's difficult to argue against the fact that he could have parted with less money than he has, if he so wished.

Just because I think it's in his interests for the club to be successful, doesn't mean I think he can make it happen by clicking his fingers though. As I said, I think the management of the club, selected by him have made a bollocks of the season and the people who know their stuff more imho aren't making enough decisions. I don't think Brent is intrinsically bad for the club but nor do I think the management of this first year has been competent enough-especially when I was fool enough to have such high hopes. So where from here? If someone better takes over, as I said at the start of the post, all well and dandy but if not then our only hope is that JB learns from his mistakes. No-one now realistically will take over and take on our debts. We just need to hope and campaign for better decisions to be made, those decisions are the ones I have detailed more than once in this post.

I'm pro-Brent only to the extent that I want him to be our owner as I think the most likely alternative to him not being our owner is administration. I don't worship him and I'm frankly disappointed by his time in charge of the club so far. I think it's in his best interests for us to succeed but he needs to buck up, sort out the off pitch and on pitch debacle for that to be possible.

What do you think about his choice of 'real friends' and their activities, both drum banging/bucket rattling and devious/bullying ?
Will they ultimately help or hinder ?

1) I dunno enough about some of the interpersonal conflicts to comment. That's not a politicians answer by the way, I just don't. I wouldn't go wading into other people's disagreements that have nothing to do with me so I wouldn't here either.
2) Bucket Rattling? I think we'd have struggled to get a sane capitalist owner who would have paid the staff debt in one whack out of their own pockets. If we had, great but it would have taken someone who was philanthropic and few owners are really like that. It would have been fantastic to have that kind of owner, but we don't sadly. If the fundraising can get the money to the staff who have mouths to feed and the debt is transferred to the GTs who are in less pressing need of having it back than families and can also re-invest the money back into something (football in the community?) when it is loaned back to them then I think it's a good idea and I'm happy to say that I go to fan fests and contribute.
3) Drum beating? I guess you mean Forza Verde? I think it's a bit of a red herring to be honest, if we were winning on the pitch fewer people would complain about Forza Verde etc. To be honest, it's not really my thing and some of the chants that get started over there have me cringing into the palm of my hand. However, the likes of Palace prove that the idea in principle can work. Just the execution of it with Argyle seems to be a bit squiffy. I guess there are probably a higher proportion of adults and a lower proportion of kids with them, possibly.

Whilst on the topic of FV. How was there biggest and best display yet?

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Dougie wrote:

Whilst on the topic of FV. How was there biggest and best display yet?

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Those lot are so detached from reality nothing surprises me about the Nerd anymore. And another thing how feckin stupid was the idea to put that bloody great big family area(thats never any more then a quarter full) right in between the home and away support, i always knew it was a honking idea and yesterday proved it.
Another corking idea from asylum Home Park...when will the Lunacy end ?!!!

Terrible sized crowd tbh. Glad Argyle got a late goal.