Fletch

Lots to consider there, Sam. And on first reading lots of sense.

A few points:
He does substantially own both car-park/hotel & leisure site as well as the ground. He knows a lot about developing hotels so he is probably onto a reasonable bet there. If the club doesn't work out, it could be sold on for at worst a minimal loss. Compared to his gains from development of the hotel it would most likely to be a small loss. And, if we do begin to rise up the leagues it may not be a loss at all when he comes to sell it.

He has openly acknowledged that he knows next to nothing about football on a number of occasions - the most recent being in his piece to the Herald where he said he was looking for someone to take over the chair from him. That wouldn't be so bad if he had around him significant people in the club - beyond Peter Jones - who were able to guide him. It is worrying that he hasn't found a chief executive in the past year.

Finally, I have asked him twice whether he expects to make more money out of the club than he puts into it. Twice he has failed to answer the question. I have no great problem if he makes money but if it is to be at the expense of the club I do have a problem. Currently he has sold off one of our prime assets to himself. He will have to pull out all of the stops to remedy that situation.

I have always said that the true test of Mr Brent's tenure will only be apparent a few years on from now. The jury is still out in my opinion. I await developments in this present worrying crisis on the pitch. He is standing by his manager - citing amongst other things the fact that the constant sacking of apparently struggling managers is damaging to the game. It is good to see an employer protecting his staff. I hope that his decision is the right one. Partly to be provocative .... I believe that Alex Ferguson's head was being called for after a few games into his period at Man U. Who knows if Fletcher can turn it around? I hope he does but, at present, I can't see that happening.

The club has become a joke and Brent holds all the cards.

None of us know what he is thinking but one thing is for sure, he is not prepared to invest, is surrounding himself with dimwits and doesn't yet seem prepared to do anything other than entertain non walleted directors.

I think he's been told by his advisers that the club can climb the bottom leagues organically and that those advisers would fund raise and get the club going commercially and spiritually in return for positions at the club.
The trouble is he has chosen self promoting, dimwitted and devious janners who are ripping the club apart and alienating many.
It is true that we are potentially big enough to climb the leagues organically but we need a good CEO and a good manager first.
We have neither.
Is that not simple enough ?

Tringreen wrote:

It is true that we are potentially big enough to climb the leagues organically but we need a good CEO and a good manager first.
We have neither.
Is that not simple enough ?

We've had plenty of online disagreements over the years, and it's very rare I say this but I think all of the text that I've quoted just about sums it all up.

GreenSam wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

It is true that we are potentially big enough to climb the leagues organically but we need a good CEO and a good manager first.
We have neither.
Is that not simple enough ?

We've had plenty of online disagreements over the years, and it's very rare I say this but I think all of the text that I've quoted just about sums it all up.

What about the text you haven't highlighted , dear boy ?

Tringreen wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

It is true that we are potentially big enough to climb the leagues organically but we need a good CEO and a good manager first.
We have neither.
Is that not simple enough ?

We've had plenty of online disagreements over the years, and it's very rare I say this but I think all of the text that I've quoted just about sums it all up.

What about the text you haven't highlighted , dear boy ?

Well he isn't investing (aside whatever he's put in towards historical debt but I look at that as more of an obligation than an investment) so we're agreed on that, but as you said in the highlighted bit we don't really need to in this league. It's only really in the Championship where we hit a glass ceiling that only investment can break through.

As for the whole fans thing- I highly doubt Ian Newell and Chris Webb (lets not skirt around the edges, it's clear that they're who you mean) have any impact at all on football decisions. They deny it themselves but even aside from their word for it I don't think it'd happen in years. A) As I mentioned on a separate thread there are men at the club with football experience, one with 20 years worth. They're always going to have more of a say than two supporters. B) Whatever Brent is, he's not a stupid man. It IS despite what some say in his interests to see the football club flourish (owns 84% of it). And whilst it's true the football club may not be so profitable as the land, I think there's no chance he'd be deliberately so counter productive as to actually deploy the weakest possible resources when it comes to footballing decisions when there are better people for job without him having to part with a penny.

That said, I agree we need a strong CEO. For all the football men we do have, and there are some, we don't have someone who quite fits that bill. That, a better team manager and we're bound to be out of this league sooner or later. I think Brent has made some wrong decisions doubtless- but if left to the hands of some people who genuinely do love the club, they would have had the same decisions be made. I'd think they were honest mistakes rather than a downright neglect for the club. It does strike me as a little odd that we haven't found a suitable chairman (if we take Chairman to mean someone who fills the role that the CEO we need would, it's all in the job description) in over a year mind.

Czarcasm wrote:

So James gets all these supportive visionaries writing to him, does he?

Anyone know a difinitive address for contacting him? Y'know, an address that he'll actually read, not some random email addy that'll go right to the spam folder.

If anyone can be arsed to find one ( i really can't) then I think ATD, en masse, as a group of forward thinking individuals, should write to Mr Brent to show him what the real word on the street is.

F*cking rank amateurs, from top to bottom at Home Park these days.

I have Mr. Brent's email address.

If anybody wants it - PM me.

I advise everyone to write to him and pass on your thoughts on a variety of subjects.

And you 'real' fans... Don't forget to use the postbox at Home Park!

I have no problem investing in Argyle, however it is up to JB to,invest equally in team and manager. I am not asking that we approach Man. utd. For Rooney or anyone but look at Billy Bodin and Rennee Howe at Torquay, players that would come here if you show some feckin ambition, and then the fans would follow. When you build an hotel I expect you will do it properly, our team at the moment is like a porta cabin not the Rizt.

What in actual money terms is 84% of the club worth though.

Sam, if Brent wants potential supporters[other than the easily led by Webb/Newell variety]to turn up after the abject failures and shame of the last few years, he simply has to produce a promotion chasing team.
Clearly, as we've agreed, the manager is paramount. Do we agree that Fletch comes across as a tongue tied dunce ?
If yes, what the hell do Brent or his advisers see in him ? He can't even string a few sentences together and displays no confidence, no passion and no real thoughts.
We know that Newell and Webb are there for services rendered but they have both, along with others, managed to alienate and annoy an increasing number of lifetime supporters with their self promoting and often devious activities. The Deepthroat/Trust saga being a case in point.

I'm thinking that Brent would dearly love the club to self finance and succeed, then he can cash in. If that fails, he has asset stripped the place anyway and can offload it to 'the community'leaders like Webb n Newell and their deepthroating, fanfesting, all singing , all dancing Windsor Boy types.
Wouldn't it be more of a 'community' thing if Brent backed the Democratic Trust instead of marginalising it with his hot air board and encouraged it to flourish and be ready to take over from him if organic growth is not achieved and he wants to 'get rid' ?

"This is a big club and we will provide the financial support that it needs to get it back to the level at which it should perform\". James Brent,on takeover of the club.

Dingle wrote:

What in actual money terms is 84% of the club worth though.

The fag packet maths are quite straightforward, based on what we know. Brent wants £400k from the Trust for 20%. On that basis, the club's worth £2 million.

84% is therefore somewhere in the region of £1, 680, 000. That's if you accept Brent's intial valuation and offer to the Trust.

Tring, for once I agree with nearly everything you say. I don't agree that Fletch is a tongue tied dunce though. I believe he is an arrogant fool who believes he is much more capable than he is.

Watching him and his team as I have both home and away this season so far, he clearly is clueless and cannot read a game at all. When Purse plays, we have more cohesion because he's yelling and directing things from the back. At Cheltenham, Jake Cole was giving his backs a serious amount of erm, 'direction' too. All the time Fletcher just stands in the dugout with his arms folded.

You are right, we need a manager. We could also do with a DoF. I'm still undecided about James Brent. At the end of the day, he is a screaming capitalist in a very old Labour city. He is always going to be met with scepticism.

Rickler wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

So James gets all these supportive visionaries writing to him, does he?

Anyone know a difinitive address for contacting him? Y'know, an address that he'll actually read, not some random email addy that'll go right to the spam folder.

If anyone can be arsed to find one ( i really can't) then I think ATD, en masse, as a group of forward thinking individuals, should write to Mr Brent to show him what the real word on the street is.

F*cking rank amateurs, from top to bottom at Home Park these days.

I have Mr. Brent's email address.

If anybody wants it - PM me.

I advise everyone to write to him and pass on your thoughts on a variety of subjects.

And you 'real' fans... Don't forget to use the postbox at Home Park!

Cheers Ricks, you have a PM

I'm also very tempted to write the great 'philanthropic one' (copyright ESPN) a letter. However I'm tempted to present facts and my opinions in the way of spreadsheets. Maybe with a shed load of percentages, or highlighting league position with crowd numbers expressed in the form of a graph might just jolt him.

Warny wrote:

I'm also very tempted to write the great 'philanthropic one' (copyright ESPN) a letter. However I'm tempted to present facts and my opinions in the way of spreadsheets. Maybe with a shed load of percentages, or highlighting league position with crowd numbers expressed in the form of a graph might just jolt him.

You could always draw him a pie chart and explain why the feckin great piece missing coincides with Newell's presence in the directors box

Greenjock wrote:

Warny wrote:

I'm also very tempted to write the great 'philanthropic one' (copyright ESPN) a letter. However I'm tempted to present facts and my opinions in the way of spreadsheets. Maybe with a shed load of percentages, or highlighting league position with crowd numbers expressed in the form of a graph might just jolt him.

You could always draw him a pie chart and explain why the feckin great piece missing coincides with Newell's presence in the directors box

There's clearly a 'relationship' between Brent and the two superfans /saviours of the club but what I believe Brent doesn't realise is that they are not representative of the wider potential fanbase . They only represent themselves and the already hooked bucket rattlers, festers and the,'I love my Argyle to the point of masochism' Aviva types. Most thinking fans are alienated by their arrogance and underhand tactics.

Abandon the GAS and connect with the Trust Mr Brent. ALL fans can join and many more would if it was the fallback we need. If it is a community club you wish to develop then a democratic, inclusive to all Trust , just has to be the way forward.


ps
The people will not return until a winning side is produced. Fletcher simply won't provide. I have never listened to a more bumbling football manager in my life. Any matches won will be down to luck and the senior pros possibly.
You can have big flags, post boxes,spotty ultras, murals, tribute and pasties coming out of your ears but crowds will dip to 5k and below if the team is inept.
I believe you are listening to the wrong people Mr Brent.

I'll start by what I always say, and say that I think it's unfair to imply that "thinking fans" and fans who'll go whatever are incompatible. I can see we've got a manager who isn't good enough, need a strong CEO and that the budget is being mismanaged. I still though, think that giving my £20 to the club and seeing a game when I can, and enjoying the fan fest is the best for me to do. Not saying it's what people SHOULD do, but it's what I like to do. I know there's a negative association with the fan fests on here for numerous reasons but I find them highly enjoyable, some great comedy and a chance to chat with people I consider friends. I'm sure some other people on here can testify similarly. I think the GTs are treated with far too much of a broad brush on here, lumped in with other factions when all they do is create a good time and raise a bit of money that will be paid back to them. So all in all, I don't think that people who go to games are the problem at all. To be clear, I'm not saying that you're the problem either. It's a matter of personal choice which is how it ought to be.

As for Brent- what he needs to do is build a good team yes. This requires a better manager which he hasn't done yet. I'd like to hope this is genuine error and not neglect of PAFC but I don't think the worst conclusion should be jumped to there. As for what people see in Fletch? As much as Cerbera paints him in a negative personal light, I think his portrayal of CF as quixotic, unflinching, moody and stubborn is probably closer to the truth than the portrayal of him as a clueless dunce who may as well be picking numbers out of hats. He has a very clear idea from all I've gathered about what he wants to do, he's just not doing it very well.

I think a change of manager and the appointment of a CEO would do a lot of good to convincing fans that he can make the club succeed.

Greensam, have you any idea what the average attention span of a poster is, I would hazard a guess it is about a quarter of one of your posts. Don't be misled by looking at Jocks rambling posts and thinking that is the norm, no one reads them anyway, here to help, Iggy.

Iggy wrote:

Greensam, have you any idea what the average attention span of a poster is, I would hazard a guess it is about a quarter of one of your posts. Don't be misled by looking at Jocks rambling posts and thinking that is the norm, no one reads them anyway, here to help, Iggy.

Only because you find reading text difficult unless there are accompanying pictures Here to help, Jock.

Iggy wrote:

Greensam, have you any idea what the average attention span of a poster is, I would hazard a guess it is about a quarter of one of your posts. Don't be misled by looking at Jocks rambling posts and thinking that is the norm, no one reads them anyway, here to help, Iggy.

Iggy! FFS, you've just ruined Sams quixotic notion that people make it to the end of his posts!

Czarcasm wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Greensam, have you any idea what the average attention span of a poster is, I would hazard a guess it is about a quarter of one of your posts. Don't be misled by looking at Jocks rambling posts and thinking that is the norm, no one reads them anyway, here to help, Iggy.

Iggy! FFS, you've just ruined Sams quixotic notion that people make it to the end of his posts!

I reckon Fletch would think that quixotic was a description of his next holiday destination, where he can relax and switch off from all the strains of football management.

Tringreen wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Iggy wrote:

Greensam, have you any idea what the average attention span of a poster is, I would hazard a guess it is about a quarter of one of your posts. Don't be misled by looking at Jocks rambling posts and thinking that is the norm, no one reads them anyway, here to help, Iggy.

Iggy! FFS, you've just ruined Sams quixotic notion that people make it to the end of his posts!

I reckon Fletch would think that quixotic was a description of his next holiday destination, where he can relax and switch off from all the strains of football management.

Most posters on here are very supportive of the GTs - even those who choose not to go to the fansfests. The anti posts are more concerned with why are we still raising money for the staff.

Dingle wrote:

Most posters on here are very supportive of the GTs - even those who choose not to go to the fansfests. The anti posts are more concerned with why are we still raising money for the staff.

Fair point, most are yes but there are a few who are anti-GT per say. But as you say, a very small amount which isn't as significant as the point you just addressed. Can't argue.