Net Losses........... In search of the soul of English football.

Chanced upon this on Aljazeera this morning. Quite spooky, as about 25 mins into the 47 min documentary, the focus is on Argyle and Exeter and that is when I tuned in.

The programme is well worth a look and it has convinced me that Exeter have got it right and that we should kick out these parasites and start again with a fans owned club. Investors can be courted and could make a big difference should we ever return to the second tier but the people, the fans, should always retain majority control and major decision making must pass a total membership vote.

Our Trust membership numbers reflect the lack of belief people have in how effective the Trust is right now. If it was leading a rebirth in the lower leagues, it would carry the hearts and souls of many thousands of currently disaffected fans.






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The saddest footnote on this report is that it was intimated that Argyle had got into financial trouble through overspending in attempt to reach the PL................ if only !
Staplewallet and co. had an offer of investment to give the likes of Pulis and Holloway a chance to attract and retain players but refused. We all know what they were thinking and what happened next............ as predicted.

I agree with the broad sentiment regarding a fan co-operative, there'd be unity, honesty and transparency in abundance, furthermore we'd have no-one but ourselves to blame if things went wrong. But things would be less likely to go wrong as the drives and motivations involved would all be focused on getting the very best out of the team, not getting the very best salary we could off the back of fans.

Re: the Trust 1,000+ for a start up organisation seems quite good. I'm prepared to be corrected but I didn't think the Trust numbers were that bad compared with other clubs numbers.

X Isle wrote:

I agree with the broad sentiment regarding a fan co-operative, there'd be unity, honesty and transparency in abundance, furthermore we'd have no-one but ourselves to blame if things went wrong. But things would be less likely to go wrong as the drives and motivations involved would all be focused on getting the very best out of the team, not getting the very best salary we could off the back of fans.

Re: the Trust 1,000+ for a start up organisation seems quite good. I'm prepared to be corrected but I didn't think the Trust numbers were that bad compared with other clubs numbers.

"A fan co-operative, there'd be unity, honesty and transparency in abundance".

Yet again you are in your own little dream world!

As for the trust... Watch the membership figures fall after this election.

I would hazard a guess that the paltry Trust membership numbers reflect the likelihood that this is largely Pasoti/GT clientele, hence the 'candidates' given approval by he who is not for learning and must be obeyed.
There is no groundswell of support as their intentions currently seem to be to do no more than doff their hats to the 'hard working gentlemen'.
Maybe one of our City friends could tell us their Trust numbers, although I think I've heard they are at least double that of ours ?

There are a few wise words from Ridsdale during that excellent programme, they would make perfect sense if he weren’t drawing a considerable wage from our dire predicament, his hypocrisies are nauseating at best, at worse they may well turn out to be criminal.

The Trust is the way to go, not just for Argyle but for football. The game belongs to the people and one day the people will reclaim it, until then we will see clubs such as ours go to the wall and join the Chester’s in the AFC League.

There’s a warning for the Trust in that programme and they would do well to listen to it, if they continue down the path of supporting the very people that have placed the game in this dire situation, they will be tarred with the same brush as the hypocritical and nauseating characters that are currently destroying it. It’s not a Trust that I would want to be a part of at present, hopefully the new regime will adopt a different route to follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

GOB wrote:

There are a few wise words from Ridsdale during that excellent programme, they would make perfect sense if he weren’t drawing a considerable wage from our dire predicament, his hypocrisies are nauseating at best, at worse they may well turn out to be criminal.

The Trust is the way to go, not just for Argyle but for football. The game belongs to the people and one day the people will reclaim it, until then we will see clubs such as ours go to the wall and join the Chester’s in the AFC League.

There’s a warning for the Trust in that programme and they would do well to listen to it, if they continue down the path of supporting the very people that have placed the game in this dire situation, they will be tarred with the same brush as the hypocritical and nauseating characters that are currently destroying it. It’s not a Trust that I would want to be a part of at present, hopefully the new regime will adopt a different route to follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

I actually think that will probably come to pass if BIL do somehow come up with some money. I've corresponded with a few Trust people since it set up and I know they're participating through gritted teeth with the three amigos. Once resolved one way or the other I think the natural reactionary streak will come out. It'd certainly bring the trust more in line with my position but I have always, equally reluctantly, accepted the need NOT to set up in direct opposition to them. Keep your friends close but your enemies nearer, it's very apt here.

Once PRFC 125 takes control however we'll quickly see how disinterested Ridsdale really is in fan representation and communication and the Trust can reposition it's line of attack. I agree, that's been a problem for a lot of people, an idealogical one.

X Isle wrote:

GOB wrote:

There are a few wise words from Ridsdale during that excellent programme, they would make perfect sense if he weren’t drawing a considerable wage from our dire predicament, his hypocrisies are nauseating at best, at worse they may well turn out to be criminal.

The Trust is the way to go, not just for Argyle but for football. The game belongs to the people and one day the people will reclaim it, until then we will see clubs such as ours go to the wall and join the Chester’s in the AFC League.

There’s a warning for the Trust in that programme and they would do well to listen to it, if they continue down the path of supporting the very people that have placed the game in this dire situation, they will be tarred with the same brush as the hypocritical and nauseating characters that are currently destroying it. It’s not a Trust that I would want to be a part of at present, hopefully the new regime will adopt a different route to follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

I actually think that will probably come to pass if BIL do somehow come up with some money. I've corresponded with a few Trust people since it set up and I know they're participating through gritted teeth with the three amigos. Once resolved one way or the other I think the natural reactionary streak will come out. It'd certainly bring the trust more in line with my position but I have always, equally reluctantly, accepted the need NOT to set up in direct opposition to them. Keep your friends close but your enemies nearer, it's very apt here.

Once PRFC 125 takes control however we'll quickly see how disinterested Ridsdale really is in fan representation and communication and the Trust can reposition it's line of attack. I agree, that's been a problem for a lot of people, an idealogical one.

I know and see your point Smiffy and I have tried to restrain myself a little over the past few weeks, but my patience is wearing thin with it all and I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that we should tell it as it is and f'uck the consequences, if that means liquidation then so be it, I refuse to be associated with shit bags such as those running the club at the moment.

X Isle wrote:

I've corresponded with a few Trust people since it set up and I know they're participating through gritted teeth with the three amigos. Once resolved one way or the other I think the natural reactionary streak will come out.

No it won't Smiffy. That lot, reactionaries ? Deluded revisonists at best, let alone those that support Ridsdale underneath the hot air.
The tactic has been very obvious from Pasoti Trust, back the Trust and the Pasoti leaders in a compliant silence and we, the fans, will win the day.... the 'bucket of Sue Pollard', the patient stout heart of Chris Webb, how can we lose ? Well, the patient stout heart of the Trade Union movement sold out many years ago. It's just classic crisis management Smiffy, surely you can see that.
Jam tomorrow.... take the rap ... there IS NO alternative. In fact, it's exactly the same pitch as Ridsdale has been offering.
I do not believe Pasoti Trust have ever had the intention to take on Ridsdale. When this sale is complete, we'll see exactly what their opinon of 'the hard working gentleman' will be ....... and it will include total co-operation with the pre pack. In the modern rather limp terminology .. shame on them, let alone their hopeless tactical judgement.

penzancepirate wrote:

X Isle wrote:

I've corresponded with a few Trust people since it set up and I know they're participating through gritted teeth with the three amigos. Once resolved one way or the other I think the natural reactionary streak will come out.

No it won't Smiffy. That lot, reactionaries ? Deluded revisonists at best, let alone those that support Ridsdale underneath the hot air.
The tactic has been very obvious from Pasoti Trust, back the Trust and the Pasoti leaders in a compliant silence and we, the fans, will win the day.... the 'bucket of Sue Pollard', the patient stout heart of Chris Webb, how can we lose ? Well, the patient stout heart of the Trade Union movement sold out many years ago. It's just classic crisis management Smiffy, surely you can see that.
Jam tomorrow.... take the rap ... there IS NO alternative. In fact, it's exactly the same pitch as Ridsdale has been offering.
I do not believe Pasoti Trust have ever had the intention to take on Ridsdale. When this sale is complete, we'll see exactly what their opinon of 'the hard working gentleman' will be ....... and it will include total co-operation with the pre pack. In the modern rather limp terminology .. shame on them, let alone their hopeless tactical judgement.

They will get special treatment at the match day hospitality events though.................... goody bags maybe, free pencils, rubbers and face paints, new buckets etc ?

Sir Ian will then be given a firm handshake and asked to join the party for services rendered............ providing compliant and toothless supporters reps............there will of course be the odd 'bleddy northern numpty!'...... but it will pass, with another secret smile and wink from the hard working gentleman

GOB wrote:

X Isle wrote:

GOB wrote:

There are a few wise words from Ridsdale during that excellent programme, they would make perfect sense if he weren’t drawing a considerable wage from our dire predicament, his hypocrisies are nauseating at best, at worse they may well turn out to be criminal.

The Trust is the way to go, not just for Argyle but for football. The game belongs to the people and one day the people will reclaim it, until then we will see clubs such as ours go to the wall and join the Chester’s in the AFC League.

There’s a warning for the Trust in that programme and they would do well to listen to it, if they continue down the path of supporting the very people that have placed the game in this dire situation, they will be tarred with the same brush as the hypocritical and nauseating characters that are currently destroying it. It’s not a Trust that I would want to be a part of at present, hopefully the new regime will adopt a different route to follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

I actually think that will probably come to pass if BIL do somehow come up with some money. I've corresponded with a few Trust people since it set up and I know they're participating through gritted teeth with the three amigos. Once resolved one way or the other I think the natural reactionary streak will come out. It'd certainly bring the trust more in line with my position but I have always, equally reluctantly, accepted the need NOT to set up in direct opposition to them. Keep your friends close but your enemies nearer, it's very apt here.

Once PRFC 125 takes control however we'll quickly see how disinterested Ridsdale really is in fan representation and communication and the Trust can reposition it's line of attack. I agree, that's been a problem for a lot of people, an idealogical one.

I know and see your point Smiffy and I have tried to restrain myself a little over the past few weeks, but my patience is wearing thin with it all and I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that we should tell it as it is and f'uck the consequences, if that means liquidation then so be it, I refuse to be associated with shit bags such as those running the club at the moment.

You're preaching to the converted there brother, as you'll know i'm ready for a rebirth or revolution, heck I can even provide my own pitchfork. As you all also know though I don't align myself with the whiff of inter-fan petty jealousies that creep in from time to time when PASOTI and the Trust come up. I see us all in the same trench, 'my enemies enemy' and all that.

If/when the trust did/does swing round to active opposition i'd hope hatchets could be buried to an extent and some unity of opposition was mounted. It may well be a triumph of hope over expectation though I suspect, and that to me is a shame, a missed opportunity. The real problem is the 18 stone yorkshireman in the boardroom.

And the 18 stone janner who created the division in our support ?

Tringreen wrote:

And the 18 stone janner who created the division in our support ?

Erm, do go on.........

X Isle wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

And the 18 stone janner who created the division in our support ?

Erm, do go on.........

Didn't hear you complaining Smiffy, when Napoleon was busy banning those who warned against 'enjoying the ride' and' trusting in Stapes' ?

The 'bitterness' as you put it, is a direct result of being denied a voice because it upset the happy clappy boys. The frustration of yet another missed opportunity for the club and Pasoti provided the compliant supporters' voice required, to enable them to get away with it.

It is still doing just that imo. This is what we should be saying to that hard working gentleman. Stapleton used to be beyond reproach too. 'I'll never hear a bad word said about that man'



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I have to agree with Tring, when the largest Argyle fans site was hijacked by compliant social ladder climbers, the situation we find ourselves in today should be no surprise.

Instead of banning they should have been boycotting, I very much doubt we would be in the situation that we find ourselves in today had all voices been allowed the same opportunities and a more militant fanbase been allowed to evolve. Naps may even have got a few more us of to stand beside him when they were shouting obscenities at the directors instead of the half a dozen ex social ladder climbers, who knows!

And the lessons learnt have been what? Nothing, the Pasoti Trust is a shut up shop and pasoti remains in the hands of the compliant until they were kicked off their social ladder yet still they refuse to reinstate those of us that have been handed bans simple for personal satisfaction.

Believe me Smiffy, if you think the club has been run with a lack of moral coding then I can assure you, it's nothing compared to those that have run pasoti. Not that I'm bitter about it, like that, I can be quite civil and have a pint with anyone, but I don't forget and I won't forget those that have stood by, watched and done nothing!

Now we're expected to unify but when did you read a comment from Chris Webb or any other Trust connection asking why we had such issues? You haven't! - Yet you would think a fans Trust would be ideally suited for such a purpose as bringing the fans together. Chris and others has though, listened to the other side and pre judged everyone, is that the people you want running a Trust that represents you?

I read that Stapes is back up at HP today, how ironic, his followers will be pleased!

BTW, where's Babba these days?

GOB wrote:

BTW, where's Babba these days?

He's still about I saw him at St Aimless back in April, just not on PASOTI these days.

I thought I'd seen somewhere that he was back on the moderating team?

Thanks fellas.

The last I heard was that he was on the mod team but was kicked off for embarrassing himself and his fellow mods when having a drunken tantrum with one or two directors....allegedly of course!

Not read any comments from him which is surprising as he was Stapes biggest backer when Stapes bought the freehold and started our spiral into oblivion.

OK, thanks.

Without agreeing one way or 'tother i'm a little better informed on the grievances over here than I was before.

I've just been chatting with Naps on the phone over the past few minutes, so as I said, I can be polite and still have a differing opinion, as can Naps.

The really stupid thing about all this is that we actually agree on most things regarding the club, what we disagree on is how pasoti is run and I don't think we'll ever agree on that. Somehow everyone needs to let bygones be bygones and get on with Argyle life with a new clean slate so that the fans have a united voice, can't see it happening for a while yet though, shame really.

GOB wrote:

I've just been chatting with Naps on the phone over the past few minutes, so as I said, I can be polite and still have a differing opinion, as can Naps.

The really stupid thing about all this is that we actually agree on most things regarding the club, what we disagree on is how pasoti is run and I don't think we'll ever agree on that. Somehow everyone needs to let bygones be bygones and get on with Argyle life with a new clean slate so that the fans have a united voice, can't see it happening for a while yet though, shame really.

Do you work for Samaritans then Del ?

Tringreen wrote:

GOB wrote:

I've just been chatting with Naps on the phone over the past few minutes, so as I said, I can be polite and still have a differing opinion, as can Naps.

The really stupid thing about all this is that we actually agree on most things regarding the club, what we disagree on is how pasoti is run and I don't think we'll ever agree on that. Somehow everyone needs to let bygones be bygones and get on with Argyle life with a new clean slate so that the fans have a united voice, can't see it happening for a while yet though, shame really.

Do you work for Samaritans then Del ?

I should do Andrew

He filled me in on a few snippets about what's going on. Not sure I should mention what it was because it's a bit delicate so I'll wait for the official line, but it's probably fair to say that we're at that shit or bust moment in time and the next 24 hours should be interesting. Sorry to be annoying

I thought you were one of the despicable 3 Del .................. no wait , it's 4 now that Pirate has crossed over ?

Can't wait for the anti Ridsdale venom to erupt at HP , Cardiff style, or will those with 'position' to consider urge restraint......................... just in case he prevails ?

Exactly Tring, that's why I am being careful of what I post!

After the initial chat about what's going on with the club I mentioned our site differences but it seems to fall upon deaf ears. We have our differences do Naps and I and we're both pretty vocal and to the point, so that part of the conversation didn't take too long. Needless to say, nothings changed.

GOB wrote:

I've just been chatting with Naps on the phone over the past few minutes, so as I said, I can be polite and still have a differing opinion, as can Naps.

Don't tell me it was another "we should all join together moment", I think I will vomit.

After all he did to the last site, I am surprised you even talk to him to be honest - after all his lying, how can you possibly believe a word he says about anything?

Looks like the Heaney bid is dead.......hallelujah ! Don't know who told Naps but he can't keep a secret

Now, was the wallet involved or what ?