GreenAndy1981 has been a bad boy

As Charlie has stated no private information was passed from here. IP addresses were compared - that's all. No private information was passed to anyone from ATD. The situation was that condemnation of "greenandy" was universally shared by pasoti & ATD. ATD, being a helpful and flexible site (unlike some), offered limited help. Many people on here, to varying degrees, have been treated badly by pasoti but what do you want - a recreation of the Battle of the Boyne where marches are held and bombs are thrown between the two sites in hundreds of year's time?

In retrospect, it may have been a mistake - inasmuch if IP addresses had matched then the pressure may have been to identify that person - but that would not have happened. No private information was or would have been shared.

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

Chemical Ali wrote:

Just to clarify the IP address of a known troll account was checked and not that of every ATD member. There was a suspicion in the mod team of who greenandy was. No ip addresses were given to pasoti.

It still shouldn't be handed over to Pasoti.... whether it's a false positive or no ... again, what right do the moderators have to do that ? This site isn't a court of law, it's not the legally set up law enforcement agencies. But of course, Pasoti DOES see itself as some sort of self elected Argyle policing force, and it's ourageous this request was made.

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

knecht wrote:

As Charlie has stated no private information was passed from here. IP addresses were compared - that's all. No private information was passed to anyone from ATD. The situation was that condemnation of "greenandy" was universally shared by pasoti & ATD. ATD, being a helpful and flexible site (unlike some), offered limited help. Many people on here, to varying degrees, have been treated badly by pasoti but what do you want - a recreation of the Battle of the Boyne where marches are held and bombs are thrown between the two sites in hundreds of year's time?

In retrospect, it may have been a mistake - inasmuch if IP addresses had matched then the pressure may have been to identify that person - but that would not have happened. No private information was or would have been shared.

I'll accept that Knecht and forget it, but I would voice my very strong disapproval of contact between the two sets of moderators under this context.

Comparisons to justify actions do not always sway opinion Knecht.

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

If it had, then ATD's Mods would have been in posession of some very interesting information.

I actually agree with you about not confirming if a IP address matched.

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

Coming from pasoti mods I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if some poor unsuspecting & innocent barsteward would be slurred with some sort of tarnish.

Remember who you are dealing with fellas, when it comes to stirring up shit those guys will make minced meat of you!

knecht wrote:

The situation was that condemnation of "greenandy" was universally shared by pasoti & ATD.

That's beside the point Knecht. Of course we all condemn the action morally, but there is no precedence for this. where does it stop ? It's just plain wrong.

I'm seriously thinking of deleting my account here now, that'll please a few. I'll think about it for a few hours. I left Pasoti out of my own free will because I did not like the culture over there. I do not like at all this latest precedent over here, and is indeed another token backdoor pasotification in my mind. Very sad.

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

Thinking about it a bit further Penz, what I'd do is let the person know, that I know what they did, so to speak. Call their bluff, and see if they've got any morals left by owning up.

It'd certainly be a very uncomfortable position for them, knowing that the whole Admin team know what an utter cnut you are.

Penz wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

This incident really shouldn't turn into another 20 pager about an ATD mod or mods coming under fire or resigning, over an act of good faith, as that's all it was.

I understand what you are saying Penz and GOB, but no private information has been passed to a Pasoti mod which could be used in a detrimental way against anyone from ATD. Charlie merely asked for the IP address used by the hoaxer GreenAndy, and confirmed it was not one matched by an ATD user. That is all.

And just what do you think would have happened Jock if one of the IPs had matched ? I don't like lynchings any more than I like nasty hoaxes, and I certainly don't like private people's information being made available to any cruising internet user.... which basically is all Pasotio or ATD are in reality. Despite our dislike of what has gone on in this case, WHAT RIGHT have moderators of this site to pass on private information to other independent websites, whoever they are ?
I see this was an ideal opportunity for Pasoti moderators to bully ATD moderators under the guise of the latest problem.... and I think they fell for it.
Where did this ludicrous ATD suspicion and connection come from ... no, don't tell me, a Pasoti moderator. I can't believe this has hppened.

From what I can gather one IP address was checked. If it had matched and I was Charlie, I would have contacted that user and told them privately that their IP address matched the one used by the hoaxer and informed them that I was giving them 20 minutes to come clean themselves before I gave the information to the Pasoti mod. If it were me who had hoaxed the auction, I wouldn't want anyone hiding my identity on here, I would like to think that some sort of decency goes before who's gang you are in.

The fact that Postey has chosen to still have a dig at ATD despite the assistance given, just goes a long way to confirming the difference between ATD mods and Pasoti mods.

What if it were a criminal matter? Where does it become Ok to give assistance? If it's never then football internet forums are no better than the catholic priests who abuse children and then have it covered up by others.

At some stage there has to be an element of common sense used, instead of sticking rigidly to protocol. Nobody on here is going to be houded by the security services and be under suspiscion of being a terrorist because Charlie Wood confirmed that an IP address didn't match the one used by someone on here. Whether Postey would do the same thing if a mod from here asked them to check the IP address used by Greenman when he was making threats to me and my family I doubt very much, but again that just tells me that ATD has the higher ground over this and it should be left at that in my opinion.

Edited to add that I hadn't thought about the possibility of Postey using a known IP address from someone on here, mine maybe, but if that was the case then you could argue that situations like that could arise at any time because they could have all of our IP addresses from anytime we posted on Pasoti.

Penz don't delete your account over this. This was an honest, if possibly naive act of good faith. Nothing more nothing less.

Penz wrote:

knecht wrote:

The situation was that condemnation of "greenandy" was universally shared by pasoti & ATD.

That's beside the point Knecht. Of course we all condemn the action morally, but there is no precedence for this. where does it stop ? It's just plain wrong.

I'm seriously thinking of deleting my account here now, that'll please a few. I'll think about it for a few hours. I left Pasoti out of my own free will because I did not like the culture over there. I do not like at all this latest precedent over here, and is indeed another token backdoor pasotification in my mind. Very sad.

I was equally pissed about it Penz, I don't find it acceptable at all and I would like the mods to come out and say it was a mistake and that it won't happen again so we can all feel a little better about things. As always Penz, sleep on it first.

Anyone exposed by the recent tactics of pasoti mods/owners will understand why some will be upset by this.

As far as I'm concerned, penz, it stops at identifying publicly or behind doors who that person might have been. that would have been wrong - no question, no quibble, no discussion! That would have been wrong. And, Jock, I would have been totally against telling the person to come clean themselves or we tell the pasoti mods. That would have been against all the principles of the right to internet privacy.

As I have said, the mistake was in trying to compare the IP addresses in the first place as, if they had matched, it would have led to the next bigger problem. But identifying that person in any way would have been unacceptable unless we are talking about a serious crime and this isn't a serious crime.

Finally, Penz, I am unaware of anyone on here who would be pleased if you delete your account, quite the opposite.

Czarcasm wrote:

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

Thinking about it a bit further Penz, what I'd do is let the person know, that I know what they did, so to speak. Call their bluff, and see if they've got any morals left by owning up.

It'd certainly be a very uncomfortable position for them, knowing that the whole Admin team know what an utter cnut you are.

What this site does in it's relation to it's own posters is up to ATD ... and yes PMs are sent to transgressors and in the end suspensions activated if rules broken.... and rightly so.
I just don't see Pasoti's problem as a problem for ATD .... why should that be ? Are PAFC now going to give ATD a list of 'unsuitable' IPs to be entertained ?
For all anyone knows with the lies and deceit that have gone on over on pasoti, the IP supplied by that Postcode character could have been false.... and actually still might be so. No one knows apart from these unelected Pasoti moderators who now seem to have far more reaching agendas.
How this site has allowed itself to be wrapped up in Pasoti's own problems is sad.

What surprises me is that the very person who issued a very public call for people not to hide behind user names would accept a bid from someone hiding behind a user name.

Think of it less as a problem for pasoti, think of it as a problem for St Luke's. And, considering the shit that was going to get thrown at ATD when the accusation surfaced that he was from here, consider it as an opportunity to dismiss some of the exaggerated nonsense about this site on pasoti.

I repeat, no private information was passed on and none would have been.

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Penz wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I'm struggling with this one.

PL2 has shown Charlie an IP address >>> Charlie has simply confirmed there are no matches on ATD.

Net result? All ATD posters now out of the line fire, in terms of suspicion.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'well done Charlie' from me.

Why the hysteria?

So what if an IP had matched Czarky ? What then ?

Thinking about it a bit further Penz, what I'd do is let the person know, that I know what they did, so to speak. Call their bluff, and see if they've got any morals left by owning up.

It'd certainly be a very uncomfortable position for them, knowing that the whole Admin team know what an utter cnut you are.

What this site does in it's relation to it's own posters is up to ATD ... and yes PMs are sent to transgressors and in the end suspensions activated if rules broken.... and rightly so.
I just don't see Pasoti's problem as a problem for ATD .... why should that be ? Are PAFC now going to give ATD a list of 'unsuitable' IPs to be entertained ?
For all anyone knows with the lies and deceit that have gone on over on pasoti, the IP supplied by that Postcode character could have been false.... and actually still might be so. No one knows apart from these unelected Pasoti moderators who now seem to have far more reaching agendas.
How this site has allowed itself to be wrapped up in Pasoti's own problems is sad.

Ok Penz I think everyone sees what could have gone wrong here, but thank goodness it hasn't.

Now Dane is the one being put under suspiscion on Pasoti, funny that as he has now started posting on here again as Saltash Green, and has stated his part in the ADT spoof site was on IJN's request. Another example of how IJN will try and get someone if they cross him, and how the other Pasoti mods will circle the wagons and join in once the lord and master has instructed.

I'm sure most of us would have Dane near the top of our lists as a suspect over this, but on this occasion having seen the play unfold, I would say he is being hung out to dry by the mob.

GOB wrote:

I was equally pissed about it Penz, I don't find it acceptable at all and I would like the mods to come out and say it was a mistake and that it won't happen again so we can all feel a little better about things.

It needs clear rules ........

"In the event of no request from law enforcement agencies, in light of recent events, this site will NEVER EVER give out any personal information whatsoever, or false positive sniffing, to ANY person outside of the confines of this site... Ever."

I can't tell you how livid I am about this ... it's actually worse than Pasoti procedure ... and it's a coup and precedent for them. As someone has already mentioned, do we think they would have given this site the same help. Perhaps ATD should have supplied a few IP addresses for people we think might have been up to no good, and asked them to do an IP check against that used by Windsor Boy up to no good in bad mouthing an democratically elected Trust. would they have replied ? Come on, gob, it's outrageous.

With respect Knecht, if there was the slightest concern regarding shit from pasoti then we would have given up years ago.

God help ATD if pasoti threatens it with quantities of shit in the future, what then, bank account details? Some of us have been down this path before Knecht when our private bank details may have been handed over following infiltration by a pasoti moderator, we do not wish to travel that path once again! Trust those guys at your and our peril!

The lengths going to to out this fella is in marked contrast to the acceptance of anominity for Deepthroat Windsor Boy Deadly Lampshade et al. S'pose those were more difficult to blame on ATD or it fitted everyone need to sweep it under the carpet.

Quote :

Ian Newell ‏@IJN3
@Chris_Webb1 @ijn3 did you get my text? It's him isn't it?

Quote :

Chris Webb ‏@Chris_Webb1
@IJN3 could be mate. Grammar looks too good to be him though!

They are on the case.

Much ado about nothing. An IP address was supplied and no match. The moderators here were open about it.

The rest is ifs and buts.

Rather than throwing 'what could be' around the 'ifs and buts', why not just work together as a forum and realise what could be and take measures to prevent in future?.

For the record, if GreenAndy turned out to be Dane pissing about, I'd have no problem with that information being confirmed through this site. Maybe I'm guilty of some things being more universally agreed than others, we all have our limits to right and wrong.

Penz wrote:

GOB wrote:

I was equally pissed about it Penz, I don't find it acceptable at all and I would like the mods to come out and say it was a mistake and that it won't happen again so we can all feel a little better about things.

It needs clear rules ........

"In the event of no request from law enforcement agencies, in light of recent events, this site will NEVER EVER give out any personal information whatsoever, or false positive sniffing, to ANY person outside of the confines of this site... Ever."

I can't tell you how livid I am about this ... it's actually worse than Pasoti procedure ... and it's a coup and precedent for them. As someone has already mentioned, do we think they would have given this site the same help. Perhaps ATD should have supplied a few IP addresses for people we think might have been up to no good, and asked them to do an IP check against that used by Windsor Boy up to no good in bad mouthing an democratically elected Trust. would they have replied ? Come on, gob, it's outrageous.

Yes I agree Penz, I think it is unacceptable, totally. However, I am also at risk of being accused of 'wanting' to inflame the situation owing to past events so I am trying to provide a calm perspective because that's not my agenda.

It seems that no or little harm has been done but it certainly is not acceptable in my opinion. I have suggested that a few rules be placed in situ for mods to follow but I believe the request has fallen upon deaf ears, maybe now a few rules can be made and evolved as necessary, this should definitely be one.


BTW I read that a name being banned about is the same name that was not so long ago aligned to a pasoti moderator/owner and at that time was being encouraged to create turmoil on ATD by that pasoti moderator/owner.

The thing is if you already have an IP address and have a person in mind it's reasonably simple to find out a decent amount about that person without asking another site to provide conformation. I'm sure the Pasoti Modsters are aware of that and have those skills or at least know someone who does. I would certainly question why they needed to come to this site when they would have plenty of IP addresses to compare it to.

Over on the other site, I have fought a losing battle for some time for them to be registered under the Data Protection Act as anyone that holds private data does, me included.

In that absense I suggested that they have a policy if not registering, to be bound by the principles of the DPA. I still think that.

I would hope in the light of these events thats this site will take the lead and if not register, come out quite clearly and state they will abide by the principles of Data Protection.

It would certainly resolve the issue in future for all concerned; Mods, posters and other sites.

This is what they have said previously on the matter

http://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=66338