Champions League Final

Greenjock wrote:

I'm glad he's thought of as a young up and coming manager, as he's five days older than me

There's hope for you yet then. I'd rather have you than Fletch, at least you can talk a good game !

Chelski are one of the clubs on my yuk list...but any club who can beat the Germans in a penalty shoot-out... and in their own backyard get my vote.

Personally I found the game intriguing and exciting even though it was Chelsea...and to see German players laying flat out exhausted and beaten brought pleasure to compensate for all the times they have done it to us.

Sensible.... you can talk some real crap at times...your opinion of the game is unbelievable and so wrong.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Hang on Greenjock I've seen this discussion before somewhere. So it's ok to win boring and ugly if the end justifies the means then. See, I think it is and I'll bet the whole of the Chelsea supporters think it is right now. Would love to have won in a canter but this will do nicely all the same.

It's ok being boring playing Bayern and Barca. Next season we're playing Barnet and Burton Albion.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Hang on Greenjock I've seen this discussion before somewhere. So it's ok to win boring and ugly if the end justifies the means then. See, I think it is and I'll bet the whole of the Chelsea supporters think it is right now. Would love to have won in a canter but this will do nicely all the same.

It's ok being boring playing Bayern and Barca. Next season we're playing Barnet and Burton Albion.

Dunno about that, isn't it all relative, surly the holy grail is, attractive free flowing football, whether your playing for Plymouth Parkway or Barcelona. The technical ability and pace will change obviously but I suppose its the win at all costs mentality that rather gets in the way of those principles.

It's the ability to have another plan when chucking 10 men behind the ball isn't working that worries me about Fletcher.

In a cup game for 90 minutes getting ten men behind the ball can pay off as Chelski have shown.BM had 21shots on target but still didn't score.Chelski got lucky,over a full season of forty six games though not every team you play will miss so many chances.

The merits of this match versus entertainment value are always going to be opinion and mine was that it was boring to watch. Attack v defence basically and I certainly didn't find it intriguing in the slightest. The point about winning ugly was that previously many on here had stated that playing attractive football was the be all to end all but in this match and the Barca match Chelsea did far from that and yet they are the ones with their name on the Trophy. Ergo sometimes it is justified. Never said anywhere that I thought it was ok all of the time but I still maintain that if Argyle did it and won promotion the style would come second best to the outcome for most people.

I don't quite get the Chelsea stars are too strong for Di Matteo argument either. Given the results they have produced and what they have won since he took over indicates they like him and are willing to play for him. Something that was sadly lacking prior to him sitting in the chair.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

Hang on Greenjock I've seen this discussion before somewhere. So it's ok to win boring and ugly if the end justifies the means then. See, I think it is and I'll bet the whole of the Chelsea supporters think it is right now. Would love to have won in a canter but this will do nicely all the same.

It's ok being boring playing Bayern and Barca. Next season we're playing Barnet and Burton Albion.

Every time a football team wins, a new seed breaks the soil, a young girl dances with a dog, or a BBC turtle scuttles across the sand and makes it to the sea ( bless ), everyone jumps on it to confirm their own doctrine as the way forward.
Paint dries, Sensible, everywhere, everyday, some make it, some don't ......... you watch if you want.

Very profound Penz and I assume it is meant to indicate that I'm advocating boring ugly football. Don't think I was to be honest but was just pointing out that sometimes the end justifies the means in terms of winning. Bayern played all the football and lost.

Yes, when stripped down, I think your argument is exactly that, the same old winning is all. It may well be for most of the professional paid protagonists and technical owners of these clubs, but I would suggest that many fans that plod up to Home Park to passively watch and support the exploits of others on a bit of grass need a little more than that.

Sporting competition means a lot of things to a lot of people. .. and there was a good item on the mass tv this week remembering the black power 'demonstrations' of the Olympics of the past, where even a Gazza of the Olympic sprinting world admitted winning was nowhere near what it was all about for him. Patently, sport, the taking part, and the passive supporting and/or spectating of it, is a darn sight more than winning and losing ... in the tribal atmosphere of football, it is essential that the spectator needs to identify with the club. If you identify purely with the deire to 'win' that's your concern. It isn't anywhere near the first thing for me when supporting Argyle.

Adolf Hitler Seffi Graf Boris Beker Mrs Merkel Nena Fritz the Cat Dietmar Hammar, your boys took a helluva beating!

The trouble is that in the end it is all about polarities.

You win. You lose. (You draw sometimes - thus defeating my argument immediately - meh!)
You attend. You don't.
You get promoted. You don't. (Or you end up in mid-table mediocrity )

I think many people initially would settle for winning badly. But if that continued game after game I think that most people would get stroppy about it. The success of promotion, for example, would eventually wear off. Even more so, if 'success' wasn't sustained on the field the backlash would be even greater.

Agree your last paragraph knecht which in a nutshell is what I was trying to say. Ugly is ok if you win and achieve for the majority. I think people would take on a sort of Millwall stance. Everybody hates us but we don't care. For playing ugly and winning it would be we play shit football but we don't care as we pass on up through the leagues and they don't.

Anyway, Chelsea. Eugh. I think the way they're treating Di Matteo is frankly horrible. I refuse to have any sneaking admiration for them or their fans or their money. I think that they are the luckiest club to have won the competition. Their style of football is a blight on the game. Their owner’s spoilt-kid ruthless ambition is an illustration of the “Get what I want at any price” attitude not a million miles from last year’s inner-city rioters.

Czarcasm wrote:

Klaus Barbie! Marlene Dietrich! Heidi Klum! Wolfgang Mozart! Your boys took one hell of a beating!

Someone ought to point out that Mozart was Austrian

Spent the weekend in Munich and watched the match with my best mate (Chelsea fan) in the Stadium. Mine was a free ticket...its not what you know....

Fantastic weekend, lovely bavarian wenches all around, crying German men and another British victory on German soil. No trouble anywhere near the ground, though were some minor skirmishes in the Centre after the match.

well done Chelsea

The Red Star wrote:

Spent the weekend in Munich and watched the match with my best mate (Chelsea fan) in the Stadium. Mine was a free ticket...its not what you know....

Fantastic weekend, lovely bavarian wenches all around, crying German men and another British victory on German soil. No trouble anywhere near the ground, though were some minor skirmishes in the Centre after the match.

well done Chelsea

Sounds like a great weekend.

Out of interest, inside the stadium, were the fans actually segregated at all, because on the tv it just looked like chelsea fans had grouped behind one goal and there were no stewards or police between the two sets of supporters?

SufferedSince68 wrote:

Adolf Hitler Seffi Graf Boris Beker Mrs Merkel Nena Fritz the Cat Dietmar Hammar, your boys took a helluva beating!

Adolf was a Austrian.

zyph was a pedant

Austrian German its the same field!