Argyle sign a keeper!

Bit of a surprise.
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most squads have 3 just taken us longer to bring a replacement for mccormick in. Im sure this guy will be put to use the sameway McCormick was in training.

Getting ready to sell Cooper in January?

Earwegoagain wrote:

Getting ready to sell Cooper in January?

I don't usually buy into the negativity on ATD but that thought had occurred to me.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Getting ready to sell Cooper in January?

If that happens, it'll be same old, same old Argyle and Board/Hallett out for me. Couldn't give a flying one if Cooper is out of contract next summer or the summer after, there comes a time when what happens on the field is more important than having squillions in the bank and players of Coopers class do not come along very often. No doubt people will say that goalkeepers can easily be replaced but that is complete bullshit-Clough was right when he said that a top keeper can be worth 10 points a season [that may have been when it was two points for a win was in situ as well] and some of the stuff that Cooper has pulled off this season is not likely to have been replicated by Burton. He [Burton] signed a new contract recently, did make me wonder why someone who has had very little first team experience and is unlikely to get much more if Cooper stays would commit to a new deal unless he's on very good money. Anyway hopefully this is jumping the gun and Cooper stays for at least the season and, again hopefully, for much longer.

For a moment I will try to put aside the money question and just take a dispassionate look at the Cooper situation - or at least how I see it.

He is a top keeper who we have under contract until the end of next season.
He is undoubtedly good enough for the Championship and probably the Premier League if he continues to develop.
He will want to fulfill his personal ambitions - he is just a human like the rest of us.
He is likely to leave Argyle at some stage.

I think he will stay with us if we get promotion this season and possibly even sign a contract extension at that stage.
At that point he would be of interest to Premier League clubs if he performs as well as he does in League One.


You could look at this new signing as a way of having 3 keepers (like we have done for the last few seasons) or you could say this is part of a plan should Cooper leave sooner rather than later. Assuming the latter, you can then either say the Board are looking to profit from selling Cooper and banking the cash or you could say it is good planning by them to mitigate his eventual departure.

Which one you or I believe is down to each individual and the "truth" is probably somewhere in the middle. My view is that the Board know Cooper will leave eventually (my prediction is end of this season if we don't get promoted) so they need to plan for his departure by building a "succession plan" - hence the new keeper. However, they are also mindful of the X millions transfer fee (I have no idea what they would get for him - maybe £5m with a 25% sell on) which would help with future expenditure, be that new players or investment in the stadium, training facilities, etc.

How they should spend any money is then a very different question and something each Argyle fan has their own view of.....!!

There is no better keeper in L1 and his performances so far have been nothing short of brilliant - which has been great for us and in no small part have helped us get to the top of the league.

It's also meant that he's on the radar of the Premier League and when they come calling with their millions things normally happen. That's football these days.

Look at it from his point of view. At 22 he can go and play in one of the top leagues in the world and has every chance of playing for England, plus earning millions. We couldn't stand in his way, surely.

Should we get to the CCC and want to go further, the money we get will be needed to strengthen the squad with better quality players, not only to survive but to challenge.

It's always a double edged sword with these situations. Of course I hope he stays, but will understand if he doesn't.

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

As good as he is, if/when he goes it'll be in the million pound ballpark, it's(still) the Argyle way.

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

I'm afraid I disagree with your premise about infrastructure and CCC being mutually exclusive, as well as the investment vehicle statement.

Quality infrastructure attracts quality players as well as quality sponsors and corporate cash. Whilst the grandstand re-vamp is far from perfect, the hospitality facilities are a huge improvement on what was there before - damp, cramped, frankly amateur.

So, you need both success on the field and success off it.

I suspect we will always disagree about the split between where money should be spent but it is definitely not an either/or situation - money must be spent both on and off the pitch.

As regards the investment vehicle, I am not an uncritical acolyte of Mr Hallett and co but I believe his actions are consistent (so far) with his statements - for example he always said he was looking for inward investment and that it had to be what he considered the right investment. Time will show us whether this latest investment fits that category but I believe he deserves the benefit of that doubt based on his performance so far.

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Mark Edwards wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

I'm afraid I disagree with your premise about infrastructure and CCC being mutually exclusive, as well as the investment vehicle statement.

Quality infrastructure attracts quality players as well as quality sponsors and corporate cash.  Whilst the grandstand re-vamp is far from perfect, the hospitality facilities are a huge improvement on what was there before - damp, cramped, frankly amateur.

So, you need both success on the field and success off it.

I suspect we will always disagree about the split between where money should be spent but it is definitely not an either/or situation - money must be spent both on and off the pitch.

As regards the investment vehicle, I am not an uncritical acolyte of Mr Hallett and co but I believe his actions are consistent (so far) with his statements - for example he always said he was looking for inward investment and that it had to be what he considered the right investment.  Time will show us whether this latest investment fits that category but I believe he deserves the benefit of that doubt based on his performance so far.

We have already sold Pan so that we could have £6.8m instead of £6.3m in the bank. Not sure that we needed the money but he got away with it with the summer signings however if he sold Cooper in January then the only way it can be looked at is that he is breaking up the first CCC promotion squad we have had in the last twenty years. That for me would be indefensible.
I also don't buy that players will only come here for shiny seats and training pitches, it never stopped, Buzaky, Seb or Halmosi signing for us, sure it looks good but what will bring players her is higher wages and bigger budgets for the team and that will only come with capacity which seems to get lower each year. Maybe we will get a billionaire who wants to spunk loads on the team, I hope not I'd prefer the bigger crowd capacity model to make us sustainable CCC but if we keep selling our talent we will only ever be a league 1 side no matter how many fans beg to differ.
At the end of the day I am a fan of the football team and I expect my money to be spent on the team not people's pension funds.

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Yet again massive goal post moving going on to protect Hallett, I am not against spending on infrastructure what I am saying is that if Hallett sells Cooper in January then he would be breaking up a promotion team and that would be indefensible. (Or should be I know many on here would try and spin it). Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Les Miserable wrote:

As good as he is, if/when he goes it'll be in the million pound ballpark, it's(still) the Argyle way.

Agreed, we wouldn't get five mill for a thirty goal striker.

Replacement for cooper then ! As they ain’t stopped touting him AGAIN watch it will go down like this Come January Callum Burton will step up into the first team with the new kid as his number 2 & cooper will be offski with the board using the money for a land grab deal at parkway ..gotta keep the American investors happy

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Yet again massive goal post moving going on to protect Hallett, I am not against spending on infrastructure what I am saying is that if Hallett sells Cooper in January then he would be breaking up a promotion team and that would be indefensible. (Or should be I know many on here would try and spin it). Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Yeah I agree with you.

My issue is you've already set your stall out on things turning to shit. Camara being a case in point, which was the end of the world apparently regardless of us getting £500,000 for a player who is out of contract in the summer, currently injured and despite Adam Randall actually being better than him.

I don't mention Hallett once either

RegGreen wrote:

Replacement for cooper then ! As they ain’t stopped touting him AGAIN watch it will go down like this Come January Callum Burton will step up into the first team with the new kid as his number 2 & cooper will be offski with the board using the money for a land deal at parkway

Proberly all this analytic bollox

Imagine if some of you lot supported Brentford who having reached the championship playoffs, sold their two best players  then got promoted the next year.

We all know deep down that Cooper will leave sometime soon. If he goes in January, so be it. It would be nice that if he does go in January, Argyle include add-ons as part of the sale and possibly, get him back on loan.


He is worth a lot of money i'd say and should he go, that cash should be used for the first team as it would be un-budgeted income, which is what the hierarchy did say.


Cooper would shine in the CCC/PL and will no doubt go on to play for England - as he is that good enough. As much as we would like him to stay, he is the one that will make the call and should he go, we thank him for his excellent service and wish him well.

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Yet again massive goal post moving going on to protect Hallett, I am not against spending on infrastructure what I am saying is that if Hallett sells Cooper in January then he would be breaking up a promotion team and that would be indefensible. (Or should be I know many on here would try and spin it). Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Yeah I agree with you.

My issue is you've already set your stall out on things turning to shit. Camara being a case in point, which was the end of the world apparently regardless of us getting £500,000 for a player who is out of contract in the summer, currently injured and despite Adam Randall actually being better than him.

I don't mention Hallett once either

I haven't set any stall out. I didn't see the point in selling Pan when we didn't need the money, end of. The new signings are great BUT we would have been much stronger with Pan in the team especially later on in the season. I've seen plenty of promotion winning teams being broken up in my sixty years of supporting Argyle and bar the Admin years we have never broken one up to spend on infrastructure nor should we.
If we get promoted this season I fully expect that Lowe will get poached by a bigger club and probably half our decent players and let's not forget that Azaz, Mumba and Cos aren't even ares and are never likely to be. If that happens next season and we are in the CCC I will suck it and see I know it happens but to break up a promotion side mid season would in my eyes be indefensible and I would call for Halletts head on a plate and so should any actual football fan. Supporting balance sheets and board member above and beyond the team is a bit wierd and creepy in my eyes but then I seem to be in the minority it would seem.
I preferred it in the old days tbf.

Greenskin wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Getting ready to sell Cooper in January?

If that happens, it'll be same old, same old Argyle and Board/Hallett out for me. Couldn't give a flying one if Cooper is out of contract next summer or the summer after, there comes a time when what happens on the field is more important than having squillions in the bank and players of Coopers class do not come along very often. No doubt people will say that goalkeepers can easily be replaced but that is complete bullshit-Clough was right when he said that a top keeper can be worth 10 points a season [that may have been when it was two points for a win was in situ as well] and some of the stuff that Cooper has pulled off this season is not likely to have been replicated by Burton. He [Burton] signed a new contract recently, did make me wonder why someone who has had very little first team experience and is unlikely to get much more if Cooper stays would commit to a new deal unless he's on very good money. Anyway hopefully this is jumping the gun and Cooper stays for at least the season and, again hopefully, for much longer.

Between me and Skinny we have 120 years of following Argyle, he is saying what I am saying, probably says it a bit better but you should all read it and take note.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Yet again massive goal post moving going on to protect Hallett, I am not against spending on infrastructure what I am saying is that if Hallett sells Cooper in January then he would be breaking up a promotion team and that would be indefensible. (Or should be I know many on here would try and spin it). Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Yeah I agree with you.

My issue is you've already set your stall out on things turning to shit. Camara being a case in point, which was the end of the world apparently regardless of us getting £500,000 for a player who is out of contract in the summer, currently injured and despite Adam Randall actually being better than him.

I don't mention Hallett once either

I haven't set any stall out. I didn't see the point in selling Pan when we didn't need the money, end of. The new signings are great BUT we would have been much stronger with Pan in the team especially later on in the season. I've seen plenty of promotion winning teams being broken up in my sixty years of supporting Argyle and bar the Admin years we have never broken one up to spend on infrastructure nor should we.
If we get promoted this season I fully expect that Lowe will get poached by a bigger club and probably half our decent players and let's not forget that Azaz, Mumba and Cos aren't even ares and are never likely to be. If that happens next season and we are in the CCC I will suck it and see I know it happens but to break up a promotion side mid season would in my eyes be indefensible and I would call for Halletts head on a plate and so should any actual football fan. Supporting balance sheets and board member above and beyond the team is a bit wierd and creepy in my eyes but then I seem to be in the minority it would seem.
I preferred it in the old days tbf.

2. Because it was good business for someone who'd made it clear he didn't want be at the club

2. Lowe left last year, it was in the News and everything

3. Siri, find me an example of someone setting their stall out on everything turning to shit

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

We will never get to the CCC if we keep selling our best players, that is a cast iron fact. Getting to the CCC has always been Hallett's stated aim yet his obsession with the infrastructure of the club is at odds with the mission statement. Selling him next year would be one thing, selling him in January would be the end for me and anyone can dress it up how they like but we are meant to be a competitive football team not an investment vehicle for a bunch of rich yanks.

What is also a  a "cast iron fact" is that every football club in the professional game is a selling club unless they are at the very top of the food chain. Furthermore Cooper is that good we simply can't stand his way if he gets a big move. I want to see him play for England and I think he can.

That said I would be very pissed off of he left in January but I don't think he will. The new keeper represents a punt to me, I seriously doubt he will be in the first team picture this year. 

The moaning about infrastructure spending is tiresome, for too long we have been an utterly amateur set up, chucking money at wages only gets you so far. Players are after money but they're also capable of thinking in terms of what will is best for their progression. A better coaching set up will do that, in fact we are already seeing a far better quality of loanee players even on last season. Off the pitch we're seeing more commerical tie ups, infinitely better coprorate offer than Jimmy and his hot fork fare.

Judge on stuff that's happened rather than stuff that hasn't and might not.

Yet again massive goal post moving going on to protect Hallett, I am not against spending on infrastructure what I am saying is that if Hallett sells Cooper in January then he would be breaking up a promotion team and that would be indefensible. (Or should be I know many on here would try and spin it). Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Yeah I agree with you.

My issue is you've already set your stall out on things turning to shit. Camara being a case in point, which was the end of the world apparently regardless of us getting £500,000 for a player who is out of contract in the summer, currently injured and despite Adam Randall actually being better than him.

I don't mention Hallett once either

I haven't set any stall out. I didn't see the point in selling Pan when we didn't need the money, end of. The new signings are great BUT we would have been much stronger with Pan in the team especially later on in the season. I've seen plenty of promotion winning teams being broken up in my sixty years of supporting Argyle and bar the Admin years we have never broken one up to spend on infrastructure nor should we.
If we get promoted this season I fully expect that Lowe will get poached by a bigger club and probably half our decent players and let's not forget that Azaz, Mumba and Cos aren't even ares and are never likely to be. If that happens next season and we are in the CCC I will suck it and see I know it happens but to break up a promotion side mid season would in my eyes be indefensible and I would call for Halletts head on a plate and so should any actual football fan. Supporting balance sheets and board member above and beyond the team is a bit wierd and creepy in my eyes but then I seem to be in the minority it would seem.
I preferred it in the old days tbf.

2. Because it was good business for someone who'd made it clear he didn't want be at the club

2. Lowe left last year, it was in the News and everything

3. Siri, find me an example of someone setting their stall out on everything turning to shit

I'll give you the Lowe one. As for defending breaking up a promotion squad, you can't nor should you.
Anyone want to argue with what Skinny said?

again its not unusual for clubs to have 3 keepers on their books including us manytimes this signing means nothing concerning Coopers future.

He will go at somepoint in 2023 unfortunately especially if we miss out on promotion and championship clubs are bidding for him. Hopefully if the club is smart they will resist untill the end of the season entertaining offers especially as he is out of contract in 2024.

Clodagh Rubbish wrote:

RegGreen wrote:

Replacement for cooper then ! As they ain’t stopped touting him AGAIN watch it will go down like this Come January Callum Burton will step up into the first team with the new kid as his number 2 & cooper will be offski with the board using the money for a land deal at parkway

Proberly all this analytic bollox

Didn't realise ATD was employing a spelling/grammar police officer, definitely a new departure.