Keyham

Tragic incident that occurred last night , first heard about it on LBC. My thoughts go out to those who have lost loved ones.

Angry wrote:

How he was able to obtain a fire arms license alarms me! it shows how slack devon and cornwall police are with due diligence cause imo there is no way he wasnt on some kind of mental health treatment plan or at least known to display signs for it as this seems too long in the making that could have been avoided if the authorities took action quicker and thats not just the police saying no more the mental health services when allegedly according to one witness statement hsi family was begging for help only a few days ago for him.

this incident could have been prevented.

All I can say is one slipped through the net. I am and have been a firearms holder for forty years now and I can assure you it's quite a rigorous process which includes demonstrating that you are going to use a gun which can be pest control or even clay pigeon shooting which you can easily join a club for. You then need to provide two witnesses who will be asked whether they have any concerns over you owning a gun, you then have to agree to have them contact your GP to enquire of your mental health and alcohol use ect. You then have a firearms officer, these are now civvies and not police who go through your whole application and question you at length which usually takes an hour including showing the security for keeping the weapon. They regularly take licences away, you will lose a firearms certificate if you get caught drink driving let alone actual violence. What they can't do is monitor social media which surprises me but then to get this in perspective I expect gang violence has killed more people this year than this incident and this is the first ever in the SW and the first one for 11 years. The Old Bill will have lots of questions asked of them and rightly so but it's a bit early to he doing the courts jobs for them. We have the toughest gun control rules in the world btw.

Serious questions need to be asked how this individual was granted a firearms licence and managed to hold onto that licence.   Had no idea a pump action shotgun could even be held legally in this country.  It's a military weapon.

Absolute tragedy.  RIP all the poor victims of this maniac.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Angry wrote:

How he was able to obtain a fire arms license alarms me! it shows how slack devon and cornwall police are with due diligence cause imo there is no way he wasnt on some kind of mental health treatment plan or at least known to display signs for it as this seems too long in the making that could have been avoided if the authorities took action quicker and thats not just the police saying no more the mental health services wheen allegedly according to one witness statement hsi family was begging for help only a few days ago for him.

this incident could have been prevented.

All I can say is one slipped through the net. I am and have been a firearms holder for forty years now and I can assure you it's quite a rigorous process which includes demonstrating that you are going to use a gun which can be pest control or even clay pigeon shooting which you can easily join a club for. You then need to provide two witnesses who will be asked whether they have any concerns over you owning a gun, you then have to agree to have them contact your GP to enquire of your mental health and alcohol use ect. You then have a firearms officer, these are now civvies and not police who go through your whole application and question you at length which usually takes an hour including showing the security for keeping the weapon. They regularly take licences away, you will lose a firearms certificate if you get caught drink driving let alone actual violence. What they can't do is monitor social media which surprises me but then to get this in perspective I expect gang violence has killed more people this year than this incident and this is the first ever in the SW and the first one for 11 years. The Old Bill will have lots of questions asked of them and rightly so but it's a bit early to he doing the courts jobs for them. We have the toughest gun control rules in the world btw.

even more so when its just been announced that he did in fact have his license taken off him at Christmas for assault and only returned to him only a few weeks ago. Personally to hold a fire arms license imo there needs to be a legit and valid reason.
This isnt Merica so naturally our laws are far more tighter on the ownership/licencing of guns especially since the dunblane shootings.

In his case there was none what so ever for him to have a firearm license, i know keyham is rough as feck but its not that rough you need a gun for protection nor was he living out in the sticks on a farm. As you say he could have easily joined a club to shoot guns and rifles if he wanted to satisfy his desires if he wasn't a member already of one which hasn't been announced yet but still what was he going to do with a pump action shotgun outside of a club. Only small mercy of this incident is he wasnt holding a rifle where he would have killed more as shotguns are designed for close quarter combat mostly not for the outside.

I watched his youtube vids that have been archived now but you can still access it i watched them as crime interests me and working out the mindset of a killer and other than being a moaning cnut who supports a shit nfl team he himself admits in them he struggled with mental health since a teen and claimed he had autism as that was the reason he couldn't pull women. so whether he got help for it which the GP would know about as a counsellor would notify them or he wasnt truthful in his application i think the latter happened.

What reason could there be for a pump action shotgun on a license?

Perfectly legal for pest control or even clay shooting, limited to three shots. I'm not defending any of this btw just adding some real facts to the debate. Like it or not even if you live in Keyham you are allowed to own a firearm and go shooting rabbits or pigeons or pheasants, just like the rich people are, properly unfair but there it is.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Perfectly legal for pest control or even clay shooting, limited to three shots. I'm not defending any of this btw just adding some real facts to the debate. Like it or not even if you live in Keyham you are allowed to own a firearm and go shooting rabbits or pigeons or pheasants, just like the rich people are, properly unfair but there it is.

none of which applied to him which makes it even more of a head scratcher as to why he was allowed one whether it was legal or no. His actions will make it harder to get licenses in future i feel as there is always a reaction to events such as these ruining the rights of those who have a legit reason to own and operate the fire arms. That would be a shame for those who are sensible and use them responsibly as a hobby but that's how it goes.

Angry wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Perfectly legal for pest control or even clay shooting, limited to three shots. I'm not defending any of this btw just adding some real facts to the debate. Like it or not even if you live in Keyham you are allowed to own a firearm and go shooting rabbits or pigeons or pheasants, just like the rich people are, properly unfair but there it is.

none of which applied to him which makes it even more of a head scratcher as to why he was allowed one whether it was legal or no. His actions will make it harder to get licenses in future i feel as there is always a reaction to events such as these ruining the rights of those who have a legit reason to own and operate the fire arms. That would be a shame for those who are sensible and use them responsibly as a hobby but that's how it goes.

Trying hard to understand what the hobby is that justifies a pump action shotgun

Graiser wrote:

Angry wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Perfectly legal for pest control or even clay shooting, limited to three shots. I'm not defending any of this btw just adding some real facts to the debate. Like it or not even if you live in Keyham you are allowed to own a firearm and go shooting rabbits or pigeons or pheasants, just like the rich people are, properly unfair but there it is.

none of which applied to him which makes it even more of a head scratcher as to why he was allowed one whether it was legal or no. His actions will make it harder to get licenses in future i feel as there is always a reaction to events such as these ruining the rights of those who have a legit reason to own and operate the fire arms. That would be a shame for those who are sensible and use them responsibly as a hobby but that's how it goes.

Trying hard to understand what the hobby is that justifies a pump action shotgun

There isn't one Graiser and Ears is making an utter arse of himself once again. (nahh dont bother ears Rickler is bang on the money with you)
Hopefully this ends all licenced guns in this country completely. Zero justification whatsoever and if that pisses off ears and his toffs than so be it

harvetheslayer wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Angry wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Perfectly legal for pest control or even clay shooting, limited to three shots. I'm not defending any of this btw just adding some real facts to the debate. Like it or not even if you live in Keyham you are allowed to own a firearm and go shooting rabbits or pigeons or pheasants, just like the rich people are, properly unfair but there it is.

none of which applied to him which makes it even more of a head scratcher as to why he was allowed one whether it was legal or no. His actions will make it harder to get licenses in future i feel as there is always a reaction to events such as these ruining the rights of those who have a legit reason to own and operate the fire arms. That would be a shame for those who are sensible and use them responsibly as a hobby but that's how it goes.

Trying hard to understand what the hobby is that justifies a pump action shotgun

There isn't one Graiser and Ears is making an utter arse of himself once again. (nahh dont bother ears Rickler is bang on the money with you)
Hopefully this ends all licenced guns in this country completely. Zero justification whatsoever and if that pisses off ears and his toffs than so be it

All I'm doing is posting facts about a subject I know a fair bit about. A 3 shot pump action or semi automatic shotgun is legal and can be used for clay pigeon shooting or pest control. As for his licence he must have shown either that he had written permission from a landowner for pest control or he belonged to a clay pigeon club.
Maybe I should have tweeted it you believe any old shite you read on there.
As for zero justification that utter bullshit as well, roughly half my food comes from game I shoot including deer which if not controlled will eradicate whole woodlands and cause millions of pounds of crop damage. Not only that but I shot another fox in my chicken run this week I not only have a duty of care to protect my livestock but it's fookin expensive feeding pedigree stock that you've raised from chicks to Foxes as well. If you don't like country ways stay in the town.
Anyway I think as said above more controls will come probably including making pump action guns illegal (not that that would stop this kind of thing) and I reckon the firearms officer who gave his gun back recently will be in the shit.

In another fickle twist of fate I saw some friends from Cawsands this morning and they said one of the women that was shot only moved from Cawsands to Plymouth last week FFS! Just walking down the road and blam, not known to the shooter just wrong place wrong time.

The actual law regarding shotguns in UK,

In the UK, single, double and tripled-barrelled shotguns as well as those which have a lever action, pump-action, semiautomatic and fixed magazine capacity of no more than three cartridges are legal with a valid Shotgun certificate and meeting the basic safety requirements for firearm possession in the UK.

I'll take my apology in whiskey tokens Harve.

Bump.

I just cant see him being into clay pigeon shooting tbh but im not debating the laws of gun ownership with you as you know more than me but at the end of the day he wasn't someone who should have had one in the first place.

i see a small number are saying that the movie the joker (the recent one with Joaquin phoenix not the heath ledger one from the dark knight) is being blamed as motivation for what he did as he wrote an instagram or youtube comment on the movie liking his life to the characters story saying his mother was a heartless bitch and how he was a mentally ill loner abandon.

Its a good film worth watching if you haven't and having seen it before i can certainly see similarities from the plot to what he went on to do but i think its far fetched to say that movie would have been the ultimate motivation for him to do what he did.

I'm not trying to defend anybody here but the fact he was using a pump action shotgun is irrelevant. I don't know what reason he gave for owning a gun but the police must have been satisfied with the reason given, the massive elephant in the room is the fact that he had his gun taken away for alledged assault but then given back to him, I suppose he wasn't found guilty so they had no grounds to with hold it.
I personally think the D&C will get their knuckles rapped but at the end of the day the person to blame is the guy that did it, lessons need to be learned but he's no different than the many terrorists who slip through the police net, they will never get every nutter out there.

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the school alone should have been a red light he was suitable, the police really fecked up here giving him a gun license.

edited out wrong thread

Who are we going to blame for this incident and the approximately thirty people killed every year by illegally held weapons?

Four people have been treated in hospital after a suspected shooting in London.
Police, including firearms officers, were deployed to Clarence Gardens, Camden, at about 22:10 BST on Saturday following reports of shots being fired.
Two women were treated by paramedics at the scene for suspected gunshot wounds before being taken to hospital.
A man and a woman later attended hospital with similar injuries, police said.

Boris’ fault. Nailed on.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Boris’ fault. Nailed on.

didnt try and blame him did he ffs?


anyone see that rather stupid comment from a keyham community leader (whatever they are) liking what happened to 9/11?


a stupid enough comment that saw the herald take down the article

Earwegoagain wrote:

Who are we going to blame for this incident and the approximately thirty people killed every year by illegally held weapons?

Four people have been treated in hospital after a suspected shooting in London.
Police, including firearms officers, were deployed to Clarence Gardens, Camden, at about 22:10 BST on Saturday following reports of shots being fired.
Two women were treated by paramedics at the scene for suspected gunshot wounds before being taken to hospital.
A man and a woman later attended hospital with similar injuries, police said.

Well who knows, in regards to Keyham, a pump action shotgun may well be legal but I don’t think that’s the point, what could be the justification to own a pump action shotgun? especially for a person who had his license withdrawn. We know why farmers require shotguns, we know about gun clubs etc, the only time that I can recall the need for a pump action shotgun was for the criminal fraternity, quite favoured for robbing banks as I recall.

Angry wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Boris’ fault. Nailed on.

didnt try and blame him did he ffs?


anyone see that rather stupid comment from a keyham community leader (whatever they are) liking what happened to 9/11?


a stupid enough comment that saw the herald take down the article

In fairness I think what they meant is that they’ll always remember where they were when that horror happened, as most of us can for 9/11 and Kennedy’s assassination.

Graiser wrote:

Angry wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Boris’ fault. Nailed on.

didnt try and blame him did he ffs?


anyone see that rather stupid comment from a keyham community leader (whatever they are) liking what happened to 9/11?


a stupid enough comment that saw the herald take down the article

In fairness I think what they meant is that they’ll always remember where they were when that horror happened, as most of us can for 9/11 and Kennedy’s assassination.

hardly likely its still no where near that big an event to be remembered like that without sounding heartless to the situation. This guy was no Michael Robert Ryan thank god.

Graiser wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Who are we going to blame for this incident and the approximately thirty people killed every year by illegally held weapons?

Four people have been treated in hospital after a suspected shooting in London.
Police, including firearms officers, were deployed to Clarence Gardens, Camden, at about 22:10 BST on Saturday following reports of shots being fired.
Two women were treated by paramedics at the scene for suspected gunshot wounds before being taken to hospital.
A man and a woman later attended hospital with similar injuries, police said.

Well who knows, in regards to Keyham, a pump action shotgun may well be legal but I don’t think that’s the point, what could be the justification to own a pump action shotgun? especially for a person who had his license withdrawn. We know why farmers require shotguns, we know about gun clubs etc, the only time that I can recall the need for a pump action shotgun was for the criminal fraternity, quite favoured for robbing banks as I recall.

I think a lot of people are confused as to the capabilities of a pump action shotgun, yes you get three shots but between shots you have to take the gun from your shoulder pull the slide back to engage another shell then remount the gun before firing. A semi automatic can fire three shots from the shoulder one after another and many people use them for shooting wildfowl like Ducks and Geese, pigeons and Foxes. As for bank robbers they use sawn off shotguns quite usually double barrelled. The pump action shotgun is preferred by Bruce Willis and Arnie and I think that's where the public perception comes from. Sadly this nutter could have shot just as many people with a double barrelled gun.
If the old bill allowed a firearms licence without a valid reason for owning a gun then this will come out but I'd be surprised if that is the case. Remember D&C will be investigated by a different force as well.

the more thats being discovered about this guy the more disturbing it is that the police allowed him his license back let alone a license in the first place.

he was shown in the herald back in october as being wanted for the violent and unprovoked attack on 2 teens one of whom was a female that he spat at and punched while screaming i feckin hate women. It was this that resulted in his license being taken away along with the gun and as the police never brought charges Jake was allowed the gun and license back after attending anger management..... stupid

reported for attacking a group of teens not too long ago unprovoked but nothing was done again.

reported for stalking and assaulted a couple expecting a child which could have resulted in a miscarriage when he was 17, he also repeatedly threaten to shot them mimicking a gun when he saw them and his campaign forced the couple to move house as the police repeatedly fobbed them off and refused to take action

and now its reported he was taking speed and steroids in large quantities that he was buying down his gym in millbay which the side effects of that is uncontrol able anger.  

thats just some of his cases that would have prevented him owning that shotgun, heads are going to roll over this and rightly so and if i were a lawyer id be strongly advising the victims families to sue devon and cornwall police over the deaths that could have been prevented had they done their jobs.