Administration

With the present self promoting superfans still leading the Aviva hundreds, the club will remain fine for flags and fanfests but sadly, finesse free.

GibGreen wrote:

If we do indeed get relegated, is administration again likely? I don't think there's too many massive contracts to honour next season. The wage bill, which is of course one of the major expenditures, will not be so much of an issue. What will be an issue, is the bit we don't know. How much are we paying for the football related debt on a monthly basis?

The one higher paid contract that springs to mind would be Bhasera. The football related debt to be repaid is 7% of whatever was originally owed. Rent would remain at £135?k. Another £60k for the Trust loan needs to be repaid.

Rather worryingly, I read elsewhere (cant remember where, possibly posted by one of the 'advisors' on another site), the Club seem to think we would continue getting 6k+ gates. Recent trends following relegation would suggest otherwise. Let's just hope we can somehow survive this season and the summer brings something more positive for the fanbase to get excited about.

I think the attendance is a big issue. It wasn't that long ago that we were getting 4000-4500, in the bottom league.

I think 6k+ in non league is a bit ambitious.

Do the powers that be not look at the history books?

GibGreen wrote:

The thing I'm happy to have learnt about Freathy over the years is that amongst all the negativity, he has been absolutely bang on the money with predictions about the non football, business side of Argyle. You ignore him, or laugh him off at your peril. Unfortunately, there's none so blind as those that cannot see in the run up to the darkest period.

If we do indeed get relegated, is administration again likely? I don't think there's too many massive contracts to honour next season. The wage bill, which is of course one of the major expenditures, will not be so much of an issue. What will be an issue, is the bit we don't know. How much are we paying for the football related debt on a monthly basis?

Are you mental? Being in possession of knowledge such as this would make people like you and me die a horrible death due to the complexity of the information, our mediocre brains just couldn't handle it. I mean where were you during the war?

A tad off topic, but what would everyone's response be too celtic and rangers being allowed into the english leagues? Starting from the very bottom..

If that were the case and they did play down here, then im sure rangers wouldnt be in this mess

monti wrote:

A tad off topic, but what would everyone's response be too celtic and rangers being allowed into the english leagues? Starting from the very bottom..

If that were the case and they did play down here, then im sure rangers wouldnt be in this mess

Whatever it is you are smoking I will happily take a toke. Were they to ever come South and it should never be allowed, but in this world where Suits run everything based on money it just might they would parachute in to the Championship at the lowest, I can't actually see it being below the Prem or worse still some Euro League.

City, Muff, Rangers, The Skate were all mismanaged big time and mugged senseless by the Suits, does one of you seriously think that land in Fratton is prime development land ? There is obviously a nice few quid to be made there but the multitude of issues re ownership and the car park being part of the Russki Mafia holdings would not make it an easy deal to pull off.

Football Clubs, like every other business should be allowed to go bust, including the fooking bankers, that's the only way the system can work. A very easy way to regulate all of this would be to make all Limited Liability Companies pay their PAYE, NIC, VAT and CT on the nail, no exceptions, it ain't happening.

As bad as club's going bust would be another simple piece of legislation would ameliorate the effect, every club must have a Trust recognised by by Supporters Direct, in the event of liquidation all grounds are subject to compulsory purchase by the local council at distressed price to be rented back to the club at a rate conducive with their potential turnover, all shares in said company transfer to the Trust who also have a right to buy back the ground at the distressed price plus a reasonable percentage increase to account for inflation and the costs incurred by the Council.

The Clubs are the fans, not the money grubbing Suits that have stolen them over the years or the overpaid players and agents who are leeching the game to death.

Simples.

GibGreen wrote:

The thing I'm happy to have learnt about Freathy over the years is that amongst all the negativity, he has been absolutely bang on the money with predictions about the non football, business side of Argyle. You ignore him, or laugh him off at your peril. Unfortunately, there's none so blind as those that cannot see in the run up to the darkest period.

If we do indeed get relegated, is administration again likely? I don't think there's too many massive contracts to honour next season. The wage bill, which is of course one of the major expenditures, will not be so much of an issue. What will be an issue, is the bit we don't know. How much are we paying for the football related debt on a monthly basis?

Of course yes, you know what you're getting with a Freathy post. Yes, his posts have mirrored our downfall.

The thing is, at some point, our fortunes will change, and we will climb - twas always so, weren't it?

Now, if Freathy correctly calls that turn in fortunes, and predicts anything positive that actually happens, then yeah, I'll hail him as a modern day Nostradamus.

Ain't happening tho' is it.

The trick with dear Freathy is knowing when to take notice.

He's not always right, he was predicting 4-0 losses from Southend and Crawley, neither of which materialised.

He does it in a vain attempt at alerting Aviva boys to our continuing parlous state.

Our leaders, both real life and self styled superfans, have been inept for years.................. for ever ?

monti wrote:

A tad off topic, but what would everyone's response be too celtic and rangers being allowed into the english leagues? Starting from the very bottom..

If that were the case and they did play down here, then im sure rangers wouldnt be in this mess

There's loads of benefit to Celtic and Rangers but none at all to English football so it will never happen under any circumstances.

Some of the numbers describing Rangers's debt I heard bandied about on the radio today were staggering. Apparently they were tipped over the edge for not paying £9m to HMRC based on wages for this season alone despite having made the deductions from the wage packets. On top of that HMRC has been chasing them for years for the tax on the wages paid to players through some sort of trust that was registered somewhere abroad. Between £40-75m this time. Rangers could be into HMRC alone for £85m. Over a three year period they ran up £100m of debt. They have been losing £10m or more a year for years. Basically they won 9 titles in a row with players they should never have had on the pitch. Just like Pompey won an FA cup with players they should never have had at all. That is the big difference between them and us. We nearly went bust and didn't even end up with anything to show for it at all.

The pressing issue for them is not entering administration but getting out of it. Remember that our first deal was the CVA which more or less wiped out the secured debt. A CVA has to be approved by 75% by value of the unsecured creditors in England and I assume it is similar in Scotland. HMRC always votes against. That means that Rangers needs creditors with another £250m of unsecured debt to out vote HMRC. I don't think this is going to happen. Rangers are in real danger of being liquidated.

Tringreen wrote:

He does it in a vain attempt at alerting Aviva boys to our continuing parlous state.

Our leaders, both real life and self styled superfans, have been inept for years.................. for ever ?

You mean there's method in his madness? I had him down as an entertaining eccentric as opposed to a wise fool.

What's in it for English football in taking in Celtic or Rangers? I can't see the cosy club that is the top few clubs wanting it. Any attempt to foist them onto the Championship would rightly be resisted by the two clubs who would surely have to lose their place - how else would it be done.... simply tack them on and increase the size of the league? Also, having watched the occasional Scottish match on the box in the past, I'm not sure that most of what I watched was even Championship standard - the quality of Celtic & Rangers may be lower than we think.

If it was wrong for MK Dons to move from Wimbledon & retain their league status, it is surely wrong for two clubs from another country to be incorporated. (Yes, I know that there are Welsh clubs doing just that but there is an historical background there).

BUMP

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

monti wrote:

A tad off topic, but what would everyone's response be too celtic and rangers being allowed into the english leagues? Starting from the very bottom..

If that were the case and they did play down here, then im sure rangers wouldnt be in this mess

There's loads of benefit to Celtic and Rangers but none at all to English football so it will never happen under any circumstances.

Some of the numbers describing Rangers's debt I heard bandied about on the radio today were staggering. Apparently they were tipped over the edge for not paying £9m to HMRC based on wages for this season alone despite having made the deductions from the wage packets. On top of that HMRC has been chasing them for years for the tax on the wages paid to players through some sort of trust that was registered somewhere abroad. Between £40-75m this time. Rangers could be into HMRC alone for £85m. Over a three year period they ran up £100m of debt. They have been losing £10m or more a year for years. Basically they won 9 titles in a row with players they should never have had on the pitch. Just like Pompey won an FA cup with players they should never have had at all. That is the big difference between them and us. We nearly went bust and didn't even end up with anything to show for it at all.

The pressing issue for them is not entering administration but getting out of it. Remember that our first deal was the CVA which more or less wiped out the secured debt. A CVA has to be approved by 75% by value of the unsecured creditors in England and I assume it is similar in Scotland. HMRC always votes against. That means that Rangers needs creditors with another £250m of unsecured debt to out vote HMRC. I don't think this is going to happen. Rangers are in real danger of being liquidated.

And so it came to pass.