Ashley Barnes in Brents herald.

brents herald wrote:

ex-Plymouth Argyle manager Paul Mariner wrong for not having faith in his ability.

When Ian Holloway signed Ashley Barnes from Paulton Rovers, he couldn't have known how successful the striker would turn out to be.

But the Bristolian certainly saw something that was to come out of the Bath-born man who has now spent three of the last four seasons as a regular in the Premier League for Burnley.

However, Barnes' time at Plymouth Argyle wasn't the easiest as Holloway left for Leicester just eight months after bringing the striker to Home Park.

Paul Sturrock, Paul Mariner and Peter Reid also had turns in the hotseat during his three year stint with the club.

A fair amount of Barnes' time with Argyle was spent out on loan, with Oxford United, Salisbury City, Eastbourne Borough, Torquay United and Brighton all signing him on loan.

Holloway, Sturrock and Reid rated Barnes' ability, but that wasn't a view shared by Mariner, who took over from Sturrock in December 2009.

Speaking about his time at Argyle, Barnes told Herald Sport: "I went to Torquay but that was a loan that was full of false hope. It helped to make me a better player. I ended that quite quickly.

"Eastbourne Borough was the one for me, it was an amazing time and I was playing for a little bit under Paul Sturrock before I started to go on loan and there was another change in manager when Paul Mariner came in.

"That was one person’s opinion, he didn’t rate me and didn’t think that I was right for football, but you look where I am now.

"I think I have proved him wrong, that is for sure."

Barnes revealed that he used Mariner's rejection as extra motivation to prove himself.

He was disappointed by Mariner's opinion, especially as he was a prolific goalscorer during his playing days.

"Of course (I used it as motivation), especially because Paul Mariner was a striker as well. But for one reason or another, he didn’t fancy me," said Barnes.
"But like I said that is just one guy's opinion but a few managers I had there before him thought highly of me and they helped me when I was there and helped me improve as a player.

"Unfortunately, because one person came in, it didn’t quite happen like that, but that is part and parcel of football and when you are young you need to learn, you need to grow up and you need to find your feet.

"I knew with Mariner coming in and the situation that I wasn’t going to get much game time and I went on loan to Eastbourne and then I came back before going to Brighton on loan."

Barnes moved to Brighton on loan in March 2010 and scored four goals in eight games for the club.

That was enough to impress manager Gus Poyet to try and make the move permanent in the summer.

By that time Peter Reid had replaced Mariner as boss, with Argyle having been relegated to League One.

Money troubles were rife and the club had little option but to cash in on Barnes when Brighton came calling.

"Gus Poyet was looking for a striker and luckily enough I was available," said Barnes

"Unfortunately for Plymouth it was at the time where Peter Reid came in. He wanted to keep me, but the times were hard at the club and money was needed to help the club out.


"Unfortunately, they had to take the money. Leaving was nothing to do with Peter Reid as he was brilliant with me.

"Unfortunately I didn’t get enough time to work with him, it was only throughout pre-season when he came out but what a great guy.

He is another one I have to thank for allowing me to move on and to find my own two feet at Brighton."

After four years at Brighton, Barnes was signed by Burnley in January 2014 and that is where he still plays to this day.

This season the former Pilgrim has scored seven goals from 32 appearances in all competitions and with Burnley seventh in the Premier League table, a place in Europe next season isn't totally out of the question.

Well done Barnes in proving Argyle and Mariner wrong along with teh other 3 managers who didnt play you either. It still baffles me to this day why Argyle hired Mariner in the first place let alone think a guy with 0 knowledge of the championship or indeed anything managerial was the guy to keep us up on the cheap.

Some good comments from Barnes. The football world is full of managers dumping very good players for what often amounts to personal reasons.
Mariner was a better p-layer than Barnes could ever be, but I certainly rated Barnes at the time, and he was clearly going to be at least better than Trigger. Not international, almost world class, that Mariner was. He did have a dodgy spell once when he seemed to get a bit too edgy and looking to throw his weight around rather than getting on with the football. Nice balanced comments from him. i must say also, it was quite clear that Brighton were going places from what I saw down here. Nice footballing team, with a look of that easy cultured football that the best teams have. Don't blame Barnes for giving the Devonport the finger having scored.

Can't quite suss what happened with Mariner as a manager. I liked his touchline enthusiastic coaching of the players compared with Luggy's style, but somehow it just didn't happen, but then I believe the club was spiralling out of control no matter who took over. And of course Luggy was upstairs sniping at his successor all the while, even live on the radio.

beesrus wrote:

Some good comments from Barnes. The football world is full of managers dumping very good players for what often amounts to personal reasons.
Mariner was a better p-layer than Barnes could ever be, but I certainly rated Barnes at the time, and he was clearly going to be at least better than Trigger. Not international, almost world class, that Mariner was. He did have a dodgy spell once when he seemed to get a bit too edgy and looking to throw his weight around rather than getting on with the football. Nice balanced comments from him. i must say also, it was quite clear that Brighton were going places from what I saw down here. Nice footballing team, with a look of that easy cultured football that the best teams have. Don't blame Barnes for giving the Devonport the finger having scored.

Can't quite suss what happened with Mariner as a manager. I liked his touchline enthusiastic coaching of the players compared with Luggy's style, but somehow it just didn't happen, but then I believe the club was spiralling out of control no matter who took over. And of course Luggy was upstairs sniping at his successor all the while, even live on the radio.

Really? I mean, really?

He was farmed out to Eastbourne at one point, and I don’t recall anyone hailing him then, let alone proclaiming him as an obviously superior prospect to Trigger.

I’ve yet to meet anyone at all who thought he’d make it the way he has. But I guess you have to credit his tenacity and work ethic in getting him multiple Prem deals at Burnley. If it were just goals he was judged on, then he wouldn’t be a Prem player but credit where it’s due. Even if he is obviously a feckin dick after goading the Demport after scoring the last time he was here, Lyle Taylor-style, for literally no reason at all.

Yes, really. Just like sometimes someone doesn't get a player at all, someone else does. Like other players, he suffered here at the hands of Luggy 2 who had clearly lost the plot by then. He didn't rate Barnes, he didn't like Seip, he didn't rate Timar, he didn't rate Puncheon, got rid of Nallis, wanted Halmosi to track back more and ruined his effectiveness for us, it was a disaster.

Don't forget Barnes was a real youngster when he was here. He was an impressive build for a teenager and I was amazed how someone so young could frighten the big guys and could actually somehow go past a player on occasion in a way Trigger could never do. I liked him early on, but as with so many youngsters, he got the wrong coaching and started a bit of gamesmanship that didn't suit his style. He started looking for the tackle and aoppealing to the ref a la the ice cream man. I thought he was let down, as was Puncheon, who hardly got a look in, another young guy who clearly had a bit of style and movement. I still don't understand what on earth happened to Sturrock at that time. I blame aliens.

I'm with czarks on that Bees check my posting record I can spot a player with potential but I never managed to spot Barnes whilst he was here. Having said that happy to be proved wrong and good luck to the bhey.

As fans, we all like doing the expert pundit routine. Some we get right, some we don't. I think the point Barnes is making is a good one. And so often a younger better player is sacrificed in favour of an old hand for internal team politics and keeping overrated loudmouths sweet who dominate the dressing room. Few teens have the people skills and confidence to "play" a manager. It's a very competitive cynical place, a football team dressing room. Very.
I recently got Taylor wrong at this present level, thought he was finished. And I still insist Yannick Bolasie can't play football, but there you go.  
As you say, good luck to Barnes. I felt really sorry for him when he wasn't given the right chances his potential deserved down here. It happens so often at Argyle, a graveyard for talented aspiring teens.

Puncheon is the other one that really stands out for me. Sturrock gave him a half in one game, and that was about that. From what I saw that day, I couldn't believe him not playing him again. Clearly didn't like that "sort" of player, and wanted to play his own man who was hopeless. Sacrificed for "shape". What a waste.

Puncheon, Barnes and Noone didn't get a look in over Fallon, Clarke and Patterson.

We weren't half peddling some shit in those days.

Most the furore at the time was regarding Graham Stack, bizarrely.

That's the guy, bleddy Clarke, the most overplayed and overrated guy to ever pull on the shirt.
This is why Puncheon never played. Sturrock didn't want to be proved wrong, and was going to do it his way, no matter what the cost. I seem to remember he was bought to replace Norris !! Jeez.

Quote :

Clark signed a three-and-a-half-year deal with Plymouth Argyle in January 2008, following a bid of £200,000 that had been accepted by Aberdeen.[1] "Chris can play in four or five positions so it's a great benefit to us that he comes with that great pedigree," said manager Paul Sturrock

beesrus wrote:

That's the guy, bleddy Clarke, the most overplayed and overrated guy to ever pull on the shirt.
This is why Puncheon never played. Sturrock didn't want to be proved wrong, and was going to do it his way, no matter what the cost. I seem to remember he was bought to replace Norris !! Jeez.

Quote :

Clark signed a three-and-a-half-year deal with Plymouth Argyle in January 2008, following a bid of £200,000 that had been accepted by Aberdeen.[1] "Chris can play in four or five positions so it's a great benefit to us that he comes with that great pedigree," said manager Paul Sturrock

I think that says it all that he could play a number of positions, he was just a body. I don't recall him ever making a tackle or an assist and he wasn't going to get you many goals, the fact we paid a transfer fee beggars belief. Still there were a couple of good goals at Exeter in the JPT and that cracker against Franchise FC. I don't remember much of Barnes other than an agricultural battering ram that looked out of his depth, fortunately he was able to drop a level or two and find his feet. He's also benefited hugely from joining the clubs he did at precisely the right time.

It was a bizarre time for sure, it was the start of Newells empire building with the buttering up of Tony Campbell and Keith Todd. Mariner was clearly appointed with the world cup bid in mind, having never been anything other than an assistant previously, like you say he was consistently undermined by Sturrock who presumably they didn't want to pay off and left him limbo.

Like others,i cant recall too much about Barnes when he was down here-remember him getting a good chuck up from McCarthy once after he played well against Wolves and he also played his part in a rare demolition job against Reading at HP, christmas game I think. Aside from that, very little and must confess it is a surprise that he's done so well. Certainly can't remember him getting any hammer from the crowd either and it was just as big a surprise when he gave the finger to the Devonport end that evening, totally uncalled for and put me off him big time.

As for Mariner not rating him-you have to say it was a major error in not playing Barnes and paying big money for Kenny Cooper,who actually played just as rarely and was completely ineffectual when he did.Interesting passage in Sturrocks book where he says that Mariner didn't even know how to set up a basic coaching session-there may have been a bit of personal spite in that but possibly not an outright misrepresentation.To be fair to Mariner,his spell as manager did bring about some improvement but that isn't saying much-Argyle needed a Beattie/Pulis type rather than a rookie who had been out of the english game basically for decades.Strangely when he was appointed,there was a brief feeling of reconnection to the club on my part-possibly anyone who saw the man play would know what i mean but in reality it wasn't the answer to Argyles problem-in retrospect it could be deduced that his appointment and that of Reid owed more to their world cup finals pedigree than any logical reasoning.

Jason Puncheon was a weird one.

There was tittle tatttle at the time regarding him and Jermaine Easter and a woman. Puncheon was supposed to have done the dirty on Easter and was Coventried in the dressing room as a result to the extent that he was literally in danger and nobody would pass to him or talk to him or anything.

No idea how reliable that is but something was going on.

Timar was never the same after his head injury; Nalis's legs had gone. Both were basically Old Shep jobs and there's no complaints from me about either of them being released. Nalis signed for Swindon two divisions down and didn't even last until Christmas before he was released there too and he retired.

beesrus wrote:

That's the guy, bleddy Clarke, the most overplayed and overrated guy to ever pull on the shirt.
This is why Puncheon never played. Sturrock didn't want to be proved wrong, and was going to do it his way, no matter what the cost. I seem to remember he was bought to replace Norris !! Jeez.

Quote :

Clark signed a three-and-a-half-year deal with Plymouth Argyle in January 2008, following a bid of £200,000 that had been accepted by Aberdeen.[1] "Chris can play in four or five positions so it's a great benefit to us that he comes with that great pedigree," said manager Paul Sturrock

not that sturrock didnt want to play him wasnt there a rumour at the time puncheon was slipping into jermaine easters missus at the time or it was vice versa one of was at it witch lead to puncheon being off loaded and i think they sent easter off to loan to bristol rovers if i can remember.
Chris clark ..i was at a reserve game when they used to play em then on a tuesday afternoon i got chatting to the guy next to me turned out it was his dad nice fella and invited me to meet him after the game seem a nice fella but i think why sturrock liked him was he could be slung in a few positions if people were out injured he wernt crap but then again he wernt no great shakes either just a average player be remembered for the goal he scored against exeter at home park

its a pity we didnt get rid of that decaying dinosaur luggy sooner given some of the talent we had that he couldnt see or refuse to play.

I moved up to Ipswich just before Norris. My new Ipswich supporting colleagues were eager to get the low down on him. I basically said he was a good Championship standard right midfielder but that someone had made a mistake. We were trying to replace a £2 million player with a £200k player. If Clark was good enough for the CCC why didn’t Ipswich sign him instead for a fraction of the cost?

Angry wrote:

its a pity we didnt get rid of that decaying dinosaur luggy sooner given some of the talent we had that he couldnt see or refuse to play.

It was a pity he came to us in the first place. Just showed how painfully out of his depth Stapleton was that he was desperate to get him back refusing to countenance other candidates. It was the backward step that led to all this nonsense we have had over the last 8 years. The sort of Journeymen Scottish footballers that might have done a job in the basement wasn't the correct approach in the Championship, Instead we stuck to the same approach as we always did, 1 up front away home however we were playing. Shite like Clarke, Patterson playing week in week out, talented players left to rot, falling out with players on weekly basis and then putting them on the 'transfer list' knowing full well no one else wanted them, a squad of 30 shit players....

I remember Cardiff supporters falling over themselves laughing as we handed them half a mill for Steve McClean.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Angry wrote:

its a pity we didnt get rid of that decaying dinosaur luggy sooner given some of the talent we had that he couldnt see or refuse to play.

It was a pity he came to us in the first place. Just showed how painfully out of his depth Stapleton was that he was desperate to get him back refusing to countenance other candidates. It was the backward step that led to all this nonsense we have had over the last 8 years. The sort of Journeymen Scottish footballers that might have done a job in the basement wasn't the correct approach in the Championship, Instead we stuck to the same approach as we always did, 1 up front away home however we were playing. Shite like Clarke, Patterson playing week in week out, talented players left to rot, falling out with players on weekly basis and then putting them on the 'transfer list' knowing full well no one else wanted them, a squad of 30 shit players....

Southampton should have been a neon sign to Staplewallet that Luggy was out of his depth in he higher leagues. Lower leagues you can get awway with signing injury prone players that barely played in 2 years not the championship. Its no wonder he lost alot of the dressing room.

RegGreen wrote:

beesrus wrote:

That's the guy, bleddy Clarke, the most overplayed and overrated guy to ever pull on the shirt.
This is why Puncheon never played. Sturrock didn't want to be proved wrong, and was going to do it his way, no matter what the cost. I seem to remember he was bought to replace Norris !! Jeez.

Quote :

Clark signed a three-and-a-half-year deal with Plymouth Argyle in January 2008, following a bid of £200,000 that had been accepted by Aberdeen.[1] "Chris can play in four or five positions so it's a great benefit to us that he comes with that great pedigree," said manager Paul Sturrock

not that sturrock didnt want to play him wasnt there a rumour at the time puncheon was slipping into jermaine easters missus at the time or it was vice versa one of was at it  witch  lead to puncheon being off loaded and i think they sent easter off to loan to bristol rovers if i can remember.
Chris clark ..i was at a reserve game when they used to play em then on a tuesday afternoon i got chatting to the guy next to me turned out it was his dad nice fella and invited me to meet him after the game seem a nice fella but i think why sturrock liked him was he could be slung in a few positions if people were out injured he wernt crap but then again he wernt no great shakes either just a average player be remembered for the goal he scored against exeter at home park

Clark scored a cracker against Portsmouth in the Cup as I recall, that's about all I can remember of him. Average player, journeyman, just the sort Luggy Mk 2 wanted to assist in our slide down the football pyramid.

Puncheon couldn't keep it in his trousers. So we got rid and kept Easter - another good decision.

Never rated Barnes at that time, but obviously a player who has got better with age. Win some, lose some. He wasn't backward in coming forward with his opinions which probably didn't endear him to some people at the club.

It was a odd time, having got so close with Holloway, you just knew that the only way was down - didn't think we'd fall quite as far as we did though.

Heres another yannick bolasse if anyone said to me he would be sold in 5 years time for 25 million i would have said your stark raving mad and called for a straight jacket for you
He was dire he would run up the wing 90mph
Either run the ball out of play or trip over from one of his step overs..his still using the same step over at everton lol

RegGreen wrote:

Heres another yannick bolasse if anyone said to me he would be sold in 5 years time for 25 million i would have said your stark raving mad and called for a straight jacket for you
He was dire he would run up the wing 90mph
Either run the ball out of play or trip over from one of his step overs..his still using the same step over at everton lol

Absolutely.

Bees probably rated him though.

On the subject of agricultural barn doors or battering rams, I think as long as they have other strings to their bow, they have a place, even in the premier league. As said earlier, Evans was an agricultural battering ram, and we had possibly two of the best exponents of the art at the same time in Hayles and SEB, and Hayles in particular was very successful in the top drawer. That year Holloway nearly took us up, the two of them battered Championship defences to peices. Many pro teams employ 6 foot 4 Twizzles these days at the back, as head tennis machines and assumed pace their longer legs will supposedly add to their pace. Mix with the modern pro defensive footballer and there's nothing to them, just honed muscle like knots in string, and little else. Hayles and SEB had arses bigger than the dockyard and nothing could clamber around that pair or stop them when they were at it, just brushed the odd Lurch or two aside. Horses for courses. Looking at some of the flash in the pan expensive imported central strikers in the premiership, I would say Barnes was an absolute bargain.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

RegGreen wrote:

Heres another yannick bolasse if anyone said to me he would be sold in 5 years time for 25 million i would have said your stark raving mad and called for a straight jacket for you
He was dire he would run up the wing 90mph
Either run the ball out of play or trip over from one of his step overs..his still using the same step over at everton lol

Absolutely.

Bees probably rated him though.

No... I certainly did not, I'm with Reg and I still think he can't play football, read the thread if you can be bothered, while practising your swing  PP
And I would bet there's many a tv pundit scratching their head at the Bolasie thing too. A perfect example of someone being able to play better in the premier league than at a Plymouth and District league. Kick the ball, run like a hare, and hope you've still got it, before you trip over your own uncoordinated legs.

Ahhh... Chris Clark

That goal against Portsmouth in the cup was his debut wasn't it.

Within about 20 minutes at the following home game my mate was giving Clark full-on pelters and a number of folk around us were telling him to leave off and how great he'd been the previous weekend and how wonderful he was going to be.

With great gusto he proclaimed - I know shite when I see it and Chris f***ing Clark won't do diddly for us - and spent the rest of the afternoon defending his corner. Within weeks the pro-Clark brigade had dwindled and he took great delight in telling them so.

A long ranger against Exeter in the paint pot was about as good as it got after that.

Greenlander wrote:

Ahhh... Chris Clark

That goal against Portsmouth in the cup was his debut wasn't it.

Within about 20 minutes at the following home game my mate was giving Clark full-on pelters and a number of folk around us were telling him to leave off and how great he'd been the previous weekend and how wonderful he was going to be.

With great gusto he proclaimed - I know shite when I see it and Chris f***ing Clark  won't do diddly for us - and spent the rest of the afternoon defending his corner. Within weeks the pro-Clark brigade had dwindled and he took great delight in telling them so.

A long ranger against Exeter in the paint pot was about as good as it got after that.    

There was a screamer against The Franchise but otherwise it was pretty rank. Couldnt run, couldnt dribble, couldnt score for toffee, I remember groaning every time he got the ball as you knew a promising passage of play was about to end with him either losing the ball, or passing it backwards. I actually thought Paterson was better, at least he looked like he was trying.

Greenlander wrote:

Ahhh... Chris Clark

That goal against Portsmouth in the cup was his debut wasn't it.

Within about 20 minutes at the following home game my mate was giving Clark full-on pelters and a number of folk around us were telling him to leave off and how great he'd been the previous weekend and how wonderful he was going to be.

With great gusto he proclaimed - I know shite when I see it and Chris f***ing Clark  won't do diddly for us - and spent the rest of the afternoon defending his corner. Within weeks the pro-Clark brigade had dwindled and he took great delight in telling them so.

A long ranger against Exeter in the paint pot was about as good as it got after that.    

he wasnt wrong!! i had a similar experience when i said McNamee wont play much and MacLean is shit. i was right about both.

cant believe still to this day the morons on pasoti backed all these signings considering who they cam in to replace.