New plan for airport

beesrus wrote:

Old problems are due to old technologies and old social ills. In fact it was those very new emerging technologies that took the eye of profiteers clocking the chance for big savings and profits coupled with the guaranteed income government utilities would give them. Once the technological acceleration slows, watch those rats scarper as they always have done when REAL investment was needed, particularly in the rail industry. Most investment that there is in tracks is still carried out at taxpayer expense. Like it or not, some utilities will never make a profit, and that is not their purpose. The police force don't turn a profit, so why electricity supply ?

 The REAL problem back then was the general public were deemed not to be deserving of good quality service in anything .... just doff your cap and be grateful you have a club rail service to support. Running water, food in your bellies, votes for yer women folk ?   whatever next ? A good slap of the riding crop is what you lot need.

We're in general far to easily satisfied in the South West thats the issue. Nothing is done properly or with thought or ambition.
Look at the comments with Argyle "just happy to have a club to support" says it all

harvetheslayer wrote:

rollo not sure where you got the £100 open return from as I knew it was more than that
A quick check and open return within a month leaving tomorrow is £276

Open return will always be the very most expensive as it requires the carrier to possibly bump someone out of a seat no matter what type of transport it is

I had a quick look this morning and the super off peak open return, leaving Friday, was still available. It was £100.10p.
That’s without a railcard.
But you’re right in that travel is becoming expensive in all forms.
The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

1. Oh yes. Cos it's not as if they have to maintain all the dykes the railways run over, is it?

2. Can't wait.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

harvetheslayer wrote:

rollo not sure where you got the £100 open return from as I knew it was more than that
A quick check and open return within a month leaving tomorrow is £276

Open return will always be the very most expensive as it requires the carrier to possibly bump someone out of a seat no matter what type of transport it is

I had a quick look this morning and the super off peak open return, leaving Friday, was still available. It was £100.10p.
That’s without a railcard.
But you’re right in that travel is becoming expensive in all forms.
The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

Yes but super off peak return is not an open ticket. Open ticket is you roll up 24/7 for a seat on the next service and if someone gets moved or offloaded thats tough on them
Acknowledge if you want to restrict it somewhat £100 will do the job. Think NE is about £28 return to Victoria (not checked that)

I worked for British Rail and the subsequent privatised rai companies, what became very apparent over the years of privatisation was the significant increase in Railway funding from the Government and if BR had that type of funding it would have been a far better outfit.
However a lot of this funding is lost through shareholders, contracts etc, for me I yearn for a Nationalised Rail Company

Peggy wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

1. Oh yes. Cos it's not as if they have to maintain all the dykes the railways run over, is it?

2. Can't wait.

Network rail service has 10,000 miles of track to maintain.  The Netherlands has 2,000 miles.

Network rail service has 50,000 bridges and tunnels. The Netherlands has 4,500 bridges and 13 tunnels.

Uk has 1.65 billion journey’s per year. The Netherlands has 436 million.

They do have more dykes however.

A healthy dose of socialism never does anyone any harm - except of course the fatcat tories and their dwindling band of supporters.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

1. Oh yes. Cos it's not as if they have to maintain all the dykes the railways run over, is it?

2. Can't wait.

Network rail service has 10,000 miles of track to maintain.  The Netherlands has 2,000 miles.

Network rail service has 50,000 bridges and tunnels. The Netherlands has 4,500 bridges and 13 tunnels.

Uk has 1.65 billion journey’s per year. The Netherlands has 436 million.

They do have more dykes however.

You quite clearly haven't got a clue how the rail network is run. Network Rail is a publically owned company. It’s predecessor Railtrack was in private hands and was brought back into the public domain after the Hatfield disaster in 1996.

You also miss out the fact that the Dutch State also operates the Scotrail franchise. It invests virtually feck all yet milks its passengers for all they are worth with the profits subsidising lower fares for Dutch rail. So the Dutch Government is allowed to bid for Rail franchises but our own isn't.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

1. Oh yes. Cos it's not as if they have to maintain all the dykes the railways run over, is it?

2. Can't wait.

Network rail service has 10,000 miles of track to maintain.  The Netherlands has 2,000 miles.

Network rail service has 50,000 bridges and tunnels. The Netherlands has 4,500 bridges and 13 tunnels.

Uk has 1.65 billion journey’s per year. The Netherlands has 436 million.

They do have more dykes however.

Got any comparable figures for Spain, France, Italy or Germany?

They all have mountains, proper ones too not the hills we have, and their trains are all far cheaper. And faster. And more reliable. You can usually get a seat too. We aren't even promised a seat anymore.

In fact everywhere is far cheaper than here. Everywhere. Our rail network is a disgrace. It astonishes me that we charge as much as we do. £100, if you can get a ticket at that price, to London is far, far, far too much.

They only get away with it because we let them.

They get away with it because despite the exorbitant prices, trains are still (largely) full. You can charge what you like, to a degree, if demand is still there. And it is.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

The argument regarding the Netherlands is chalk and cheese. They are an open and flat country with little need for maintaining road and rail bridges and tunnels.
Like I say, Socialism is on its way. Best of luck.

1. Oh yes. Cos it's not as if they have to maintain all the dykes the railways run over, is it?

2. Can't wait.

Network rail service has 10,000 miles of track to maintain.  The Netherlands has 2,000 miles.

Network rail service has 50,000 bridges and tunnels. The Netherlands has 4,500 bridges and 13 tunnels.

Uk has 1.65 billion journey’s per year. The Netherlands has 436 million.

They do have more dykes however.

You quite clearly haven't got a clue how the rail network is run.

Correct, but I know someone who does. He’s called Wikipedia and he’s spawned a bunch of big headed know all’s who think they have the simple panacea for life.

This is a great country to live in but you’d never guess it judging by some posts. Yeah okay, it’s not perfect but it’s as good as anywhere.

I agree, there's nothing worse than checking your facts facts before wading into an argument

Many people argue on which bank of the emotional Styxx they belong. Nothing to do with facts, just flags. The truth is the operators only want to run the main station peak time services, which will always be and always have been full, yes, even when it was British Rail.
As to the idea of trains being full in general, I don't know what trains you catch Czarky, but the local Devon and Cornwall trains I regularly catch here and there are nowhere near full, bar perhaps a Saturday morning. For instance, the evening Devon trains are all virtually empty, yet they saw fit to increase prices by 20% three weeks ago. They must have some mighty strange supply and demand pie charts. Of course, on the other hand they could be trying to divest themselves of the whole unprofitable Devon and Cornwall network ( which they are as I type ) and just cherry pick the Paddington/Penzance mainline that does make a profit, although mostly between London and Reading. Same old crap from private business.

Czarcasm wrote:

They get away with it because despite the exorbitant prices, trains are still (largely) full. You can charge what you like, to a degree, if demand is still there. And it is.

They get away with it because people keep voting Tory.

Nobody else wants to see the rail network privatised any more.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

They get away with it because despite the exorbitant prices, trains are still (largely) full. You can charge what you like, to a degree, if demand is still there. And it is.

They get away with it because people keep voting Tory.

Nobody else wants to see the rail network privatised any more.

Labour had 13 years in power to do something about it and did sod all, for me the privatisation of BR was an horrendous decision by the Tories which imo cost lives. While Corbyn and his bunch may well nationalise the Railways, having that crowd running the country scares me more than Trump

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

They get away with it because despite the exorbitant prices, trains are still (largely) full. You can charge what you like, to a degree, if demand is still there. And it is.

They get away with it because people keep voting Tory.

Nobody else wants to see the rail network privatised any more.

And why do people keep voting Tory? Because the alternative is so utterly unpalatable. But there we go.

It does make me laugh that people scoff at the thought of a viable Plymouth airport, yet in the same breath romanticise about re-nationalising the railways.

Graiser wrote:

While Corbyn and his bunch may well nationalise the Railways, having that crowd running the country scares me more than Trump

Blimey, you don't half frighten easily, you big booby.
What do you think will happen ? a plague of frogs ? allotments free at the point of delivery ?
You've been reading too many comics. I'm sure we'll all manage.

Sadly any form of nationalisation is both against EU regulations, and will bankrupt the country.. but this will of course change in a few years after brexit

"Bankrupt the country"?

Have a word with yerself.

IMO people who use the railways should pay for the railways, I don't think taxpayers should be subsidising bankers season tickets.

Railways have always been subsidised, regardless of who owns them. The books show it costs more to run the railways than it did when nationalised.
Schools are subsidised, should those without children not pay ?

if does cost more in subsidy now in total, but costs less now per passenger.

argyl3 wrote:

Sadly any form of nationalisation is both against EU regulations, and will bankrupt the country.. but this will of course change in a few years after brexit

1) No it’s not
2) No it won’t.

The plan, as outlined in Labours manifesto in 2017 is to take the individual rail franchises back into public ownership when each franchise expires. Ergo, no compensation to Mr Branson and his billionaire chums, and the massive subsidies stop.

Putting forward arguments picked up from Daily Express headlines and internet memes is probably not the best idea, argyl3.

Graiser wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

They get away with it because despite the exorbitant prices, trains are still (largely) full. You can charge what you like, to a degree, if demand is still there. And it is.

They get away with it because people keep voting Tory.

Nobody else wants to see the rail network privatised any more.

Labour had 13 years in power to do something about it and did sod all

You do realise that the Labour Party is under new management these days, and one of the reasons it’s under new management is because between 1997 and 2010 *cough* Labour had 13 years in power to do something about it and did sod all.