HS2

To very little fanfare in case it annoys the core vote who's lives are about to be disrupted. The biggest white Elephant since HHP has been granted Royal Assent. Meanwhile as you get from Birmingham to London 20 minutes faster, the GWR network staggers on with antiquated rolling stock and crumbling infrastructure

Who the hell wants to get up north 20 minutes quicker....

Hugh Watt wrote:

To very little fanfare in case it annoys the core vote who's lives are about to be disrupted. The biggest white Elephant since HHP has been granted Royal Assent. Meanwhile as you get from Birmingham to London 20 minutes faster, the GWR network staggers on with antiquated rolling stock and crumbling infrastructure

Would you want the rest of the UK to discover Plymouth ?....more visiters....more Industry.....more fans....NEW STADIUM.....Argyle becoming a Premiership club....European competition....lets just keep a little old dodgy weather dominated rail track at Dawlish the highlight of our world.....would you want £250,000 per week spoilt footballers walking around the Hoe lording it over everyone....be careful what you wish for.

The HS2 money could have been better spent on reopening some of the lines crazily closed by Marples and Beeching in the 1960's. Rail travel has increased massively in the past 20 years or so and the trend shows no sign of slowing down, absolutely mad that places like Tavistock, Launceston, Tiverton [and further afield of course] have no access to the national network. I'm actually not against HS2 as such but priorities are all wrong, London centricity to the fore again. The Great Central would have been perfect to have been developed as a fast line from Sheffield and beyond to London but was carelessly thrown to the four winds and no effort made to at least protect the trackbed, lost in the interest of grubby,small minded short termism. Madness.

zyph wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

To very little fanfare in case it annoys the core vote who's lives are about to be disrupted. The biggest white Elephant since HHP has been granted Royal Assent. Meanwhile as you get from Birmingham to London 20 minutes faster, the GWR network staggers on with antiquated rolling stock and crumbling infrastructure

Would you want the rest of the UK to discover Plymouth ?....more visiters....more Industry.....more fans....NEW STADIUM.....Argyle becoming a Premiership club....European competition....lets just keep a little old dodgy weather dominated rail track at Dawlish the highlight of our world.....would you want £250,000 per week spoilt footballers walking around the Hoe lording it over everyone....be careful what you wish for.

Rambling again lol

Seems money is no object to this megalodon of a scheme, while transport links to the Southwest continue to wither.

Without a doubt the cost will escalate, the merits of constructing these new routes do warrant debate but it's not strictly correct to suggest no benefit to us as there will be an indirect benefit to our neck of the woods by freeing up route access on the existing routes to the West Country

But there is no debate, is there ? They're just going to push it through. New houses being demolished in Yorkshire just so london centric business employees can needlessly pop up for the day an hour quicker., and more hapless souls having to commute to London for 4 hours a day over and above the work load.  Bringing wealth to the North, the London way, pull down their houses.
Same old taking care of their petty interests and screw everyone else. If anyone thinks this will make diddly of a difference to the wealth distribution out from the City State, you need your heads examined. Brexit will hit London, though, not that it's lost wealth will trickle into Northern pockets and certainly not down here. Can't wait for the old Okey/Tavistock line to reopen.

Graiser wrote:

Without a doubt the cost will escalate, the merits of constructing these new routes do warrant debate but it's not strictly correct to suggest no benefit to us as there will be an indirect benefit to our neck of the woods by freeing up route access on the existing routes to the West Country

How do you work that out, it doesn't go anywhere near the Westcountry or any of the route that serves the West country?

beesrus wrote:

But there is no debate, is there ? They're just going to push it through. New houses being demolished in Yorkshire just so london centric business employees can needlessly pop up for the day an hour quicker., and more hapless souls having to commute to London for 4 hours a day over and above the work load.  Bringing wealth to the North, the London way, pull down their houses.
Same old taking care of their petty interests and screw everyone else. If anyone thinks this will make diddly of a difference to the wealth distribution out from the City State, you need your heads examined. Brexit will hit London, though, not that it's lost wealth will trickle into Northern pockets and certainly not down here. Can't wait for the old Okey/Tavistock line to reopen.

I notice that a rather large contract has been handed to Carillion who are currently in financial dire straits. Carillion are a big Conservative donor, virtually all of their business is public service contracts particularly, which is why these necessary projects are created.

beesrus wrote:

But there is no debate, is there ? They're just going to push it through. New houses being demolished in Yorkshire just so london centric business employees can needlessly pop up for the day an hour quicker., and more hapless souls having to commute to London for 4 hours a day over and above the work load.  Bringing wealth to the North, the London way, pull down their houses.
Same old taking care of their petty interests and screw everyone else. If anyone thinks this will make diddly of a difference to the wealth distribution out from the City State, you need your heads examined. Brexit will hit London, though, not that it's lost wealth will trickle into Northern pockets and certainly not down here. Can't wait for the old Okey/Tavistock line to reopen.

Apologies for having to spell it out, "Debate within ATD"

Hugh Watt wrote:

beesrus wrote:

But there is no debate, is there ? They're just going to push it through. New houses being demolished in Yorkshire just so london centric business employees can needlessly pop up for the day an hour quicker., and more hapless souls having to commute to London for 4 hours a day over and above the work load.  Bringing wealth to the North, the London way, pull down their houses.
Same old taking care of their petty interests and screw everyone else. If anyone thinks this will make diddly of a difference to the wealth distribution out from the City State, you need your heads examined. Brexit will hit London, though, not that it's lost wealth will trickle into Northern pockets and certainly not down here. Can't wait for the old Okey/Tavistock line to reopen.

I notice that a rather large contract has been handed to Carillion who are currently in financial dire straits. Carillion are a big Conservative donor, virtually all of their business is public service contracts particularly, which is why these necessary projects are created.

In other countries, it's called corruption. In this country it's called good business sense. Aviva propaganda fashioned for Avivas.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Without a doubt the cost will escalate, the merits of constructing these new routes do warrant debate but it's not strictly correct to suggest no benefit to us as there will be an indirect benefit to our neck of the woods by freeing up route access on the existing routes to the West Country

How do you work that out, it doesn't go anywhere near the Westcountry or any of the route that serves the West country?

Passengers do choose at times to travel from the North to the West Country via London, I've done it myself and if you time it right it can be quicker than direct from the North via Bristol, conversely passengers also travel to London from Wales/Midlands via Bristol, it's hoped and assumed that when the new routes are in service that the Midlands and North to London passengers will utilise those routes, this would then give an increased track access with a subsequent increase in the services.
That's the way it's viewed in regard to our geographical area, however personally I would have preferred to have seen a priority given to investing in a new Exeter - Plymouth diversionary route

Hugh Watt wrote:

beesrus wrote:

But there is no debate, is there ? They're just going to push it through. New houses being demolished in Yorkshire just so london centric business employees can needlessly pop up for the day an hour quicker., and more hapless souls having to commute to London for 4 hours a day over and above the work load.  Bringing wealth to the North, the London way, pull down their houses.
Same old taking care of their petty interests and screw everyone else. If anyone thinks this will make diddly of a difference to the wealth distribution out from the City State, you need your heads examined. Brexit will hit London, though, not that it's lost wealth will trickle into Northern pockets and certainly not down here. Can't wait for the old Okey/Tavistock line to reopen.

I notice that a rather large contract has been handed to Carillion who are currently in financial dire straits. Carillion are a big Conservative donor, virtually all of their business is public service contracts particularly, which is why these necessary projects are created.

They do tend to spread it around the big Rail construction players, however there's always a tendering process, who bids lowest gets it usually, however i believe that Carrilion are very good at raising TV's throughout the duration of a contract and i understand that the Somerset County Council are taking Carillion to court over their construction of the "Taunton Inner Distribution Road" which was recently opened 2 years late

I see the long promised electrification of the London Wales route has now been cancelled. Guess the wrong sort of people and business travel to Wales, or maybe South Wales doesn't need the wealth spread out to them, like the north of england. You just couldn't make this stuff up.

That's been assumed for the last 2 years, however it's not quite what you say as electrification is still on for Cardiff which is planned for completion in 2018.
IEP trains will service the Cardiff - Swansea route which can travel at the same speed, so no real loss in travel time.
Where it may impact is on the Bristol - Penzance route where some IEP trains may be diverted from our area to the Swansea - London route.

Graiser wrote:

That's been assumed for the last 2 years, however it's not quite what you say as electrification is still on for Cardiff which is planned for completion in 2018.
IEP trains will service the Cardiff - Swansea route which can travel at the same speed, so no real loss in travel time.
Where it may impact is on the Bristol - Penzance route where some IEP trains may be diverted from our area to the Swansea - London route.

I thought the electrification will now stop at Newbury (that stockbroker belt town not far from London   )

Word is the new Hitachi trains could well be much slower than the legendary HSTs & won't cope with tight curves like Saltash station.
Also that Network rail would do anything to stop the main line at Exeter & just maintain a peninsula branch line (for as long as the sea allows) further west.

Yet still the government are prepared to throw any number of billions at HS2 lining the pockets of thousands of corrupt suits in the process.

Welcome to 3rd world Britain.

Lord Melbury wrote:

Graiser wrote:

That's been assumed for the last 2 years, however it's not quite what you say as electrification is still on for Cardiff which is planned for completion in 2018.
IEP trains will service the Cardiff - Swansea route which can travel at the same speed, so no real loss in travel time.
Where it may impact is on the Bristol - Penzance route where some IEP trains may be diverted from our area to the Swansea - London route.

I thought the electrification will now stop at Newbury (that stockbroker belt town not far from London   )

Word is the new Hitachi trains could well be much slower than the legendary HSTs & won't cope with tight curves like Saltash station.
Also that Network rail would do anything to stop the main line at Exeter & just maintain a peninsula branch line (for as long as the sea allows) further west.

Yet still the government are prepared to throw any number of billions at HS2 lining the pockets of thousands of corrupt suits in the process.

Welcome to 3rd world Britain.

The wires are planned to reach Cardiff by 2018, the new IEP depot at Stoke Gifford Bristol already has wires installed.

The IEP train has clearance issues at some locations, structures and platforms which have been dealt with as far as Plymouth with a further programme of remediation works planned for Cornwall.

It'll run as far as Penzance with no issues.

The IEP train can reach speeds of 140mph but will only run at 125mph where permissible.

It'll be a faster service in Cornwall than the HST's due to their superior acceleration.

It's also a fallacy in regards to assumed branch line status from Exeter, it won't happen.

But I agree that funding for HS2 could be used for greater benefit elsewhere in the Network

Are there MTU engines going in the new trains Graiser & do you know how much more power they will have than the standard engines ?

Lord Melbury wrote:

Are there MTU engines going in the new trains Graiser & do you know how much more power they will have than the standard engines ?

Sorry my Lord my background is track engineering so not really au fait with Diesel engines, however I've cut a piece below which may be of help

"Rolls-Royce has received an order from Hitachi Rail Europe to supply 136 Series 1600 MTU PowerPacks to be installed in a total of 36 Class 802 high-speed trains for use on Great Western Railway (GWR) services in England from 2018. The MTU brand is part of Rolls-Royce Power Systems.
Bernd Krüper, Vice President Industrial Business at MTU, said: “With our Series 1600 MTU PowerPacks, Hitachi and Great Western Railway will be getting a customised drive solution that is powerful, economical and environmentally-friendly. We are proud that, once again, Hitachi and GWR have chosen our traction systems.”
At the heart of the MTU PowerPack to be used in the trains is the MTU 12V 1600 R80L, a 12-cylinder diesel engine. Key characteristics of these engines are their high power density, low consumption and low emissions: a built-in SCR unit ensures they meet the strict requirements of the EU Stage IIIB emission legislation.
The trains are expected to mainly run on routes between London, Plymouth and Penzance in the west of England. These bi-mode trains can either run in an electric mode under the catenary or use their diesel-electric traction system on non-electrified routes.
The Class 802 trains are similar to their Class 800 and 801 counterparts which are built by Hitachi for the UK’s Intercity Express Programme and are also fitted with Series 1600 MTU PowerPacks. For this project, Rolls-Royce is to supply more than 330 MTU PowerPacks and guarantee availability of the drive systems through the lifetime of Hitachi’s contract for IEP. The first trains of the two train types are currently undergoing trials in the UK. They are due to go into regular service on the Great Western Mainline from autumn 2017 and on the East Coast Mainline from the beginning of 2018."

Cheers Graiser, I did have a scout around myself & found some info too. I hadn't realised these were the controversial trains that Bombardier in Derby had put in a bid to build.

Lord Melbury wrote:

Cheers Graiser, I did have a scout around myself & found some info too. I hadn't realised these were the controversial trains that Bombardier in Derby had put in a bid to build.

Your very welcome my Lord, up the greens !

Lord Melbury wrote:

Cheers Graiser, I did have a scout around myself & found some info too. I hadn't realised these were the controversial trains that Bombardier in Derby had put in a bid to build.

I bet GWR still end up leasing those dreadful Class 144 "Pacer" DMU's for stopping journeys.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Melbury wrote:

Cheers Graiser, I did have a scout around myself & found some info too. I hadn't realised these were the controversial trains that Bombardier in Derby had put in a bid to build.

I bet GWR still end up leasing those dreadful Class 144 "Pacer" DMU's for stopping journeys.

I did hear they were being phased out around 2020, not sure if that's correct or not.