Tyler Harvey

Former Argyle striker Tyler Harvey playing as a trialist for Hartlepool reserves v Mansfield this afternoon

It's very sad for many young English players like Harvey. Trying to get a foothold into pro first team football. They have to be given their chance in order for them to improve, but with cheap athletic imports abounding everywhere, many excellent prospects are lost to the game.
Take Tommy Tynan in the old days, when local players had half a chance. He wasn't the tallest or most athletic of ball playing players. 5 years at Liverpool saw him not make the grade there, and he ended up going to America of all places to try and get a game. He was actually into his twenties before he blossomed at home with Sheffield Wednesday, and so followed an excellent career. So many good players lost to the game because they are not given the time on the pitch. Adams is as bad as all the other previous managers, in not giving the likes of Rooney a half decent chance.
Talented players like Mason and Stephens being given next to no chance at Argyle is a disgrace, and a lack of vision and management ability. Village to the end, unlike the cathedral city up the road, who actually give their youngsters a fair crack of the whip.

Thomas brought down in the box and it's a penalty! Harvey slots it in to the bottom right corner. 1-0 @Official_HUFC
2:30 PM - 7 Feb 2017

I think most, though not all managers will do all the can to raise the chances of winning games even in the short to medium term. This will inevitably result in them bringing in loan players who they perceive to be of a higher standard than those kids knocking at the door of the first team squad. Managers are under extreme scrutiny to get results and this will almost always result in chances for home grown kids being thin on the ground.

Not the best for all concerned, but possibly best for them and their managerial longevity chances.

Yep, that's exactly the reasoning in their heads. Welcome to the age of mediocrity and bumbling Garitas who come cheap and comparatively risk free. Call centre mentality.
This will be unpopular with some tribal twerps here, but I actually think Tisdale has more of an eye for the long term than anyone here has for many a year. Educated wanker. Shame about the ubiquitous double tied scarves and irritating diction though.

I'm thinking it's about time I pootled off again and rejoined my quest for the holy grail well away from  pro football and it's inevitable inability to produce the answer.

Stephens and especially Mason were given opportunities by Argyle and in fact were regular members of the first team before being sold off on the cheap in Argyle's financial meltdown fire sale orchestrated by Ridsdale. Harvey has had loads of chances at Argyle [52 of various types] over the years and the fact that he can't make it at Wrexham or Bath would suggest that there is something missing in his make up that stops him from fulfilling his talent. Agree with the principle of young players being forced out of the English game in favour of mediocre foreign players but wouldn't say that those three cases are necessarily examples of that.

Were they now ? Stevens was given 5 outings at Argyle.

beesrus wrote:

Were they now ? Stevens was given 5 outings at Argyle.

That's why I said "especially Mason" [for information, Joe played 53 times for Argyle] in my previous post. Stephens had the obstacle of Bhasera to overcome but would certainly have been in contention for a regular spot the season after upon Bhasera's departure.

Stephens was 16 when he left. You don't play players that old week n week out.

Birmingham did with Trevor Francis. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Rooney (Wayne) was a better player at 17 than when he was 30. Stephens was better than what else we had. He looked quite composed and tight. He could actually play football, which seems to be less and less of a requirement these days in the theatre of screams. Tickling ears and bumbling around up front without falling over too often seem to be the order of the day. Won't be long before all footballers in this country are 6ft 10 basket ball players or second row rugger thick 'eds.
Decent youngsters become great players in this country despite the coaching and managing, not because of it. All too rare these days, now bottom line performance is de rigeur. The joke is teams still go down, no matter what. rant rant rant

Francis was an exception rather than a rule. If Jack Stephens was that good, then he would have established himself in Southamptons first team as Francis did all those years ago or made as big an impact as Walcott and Oxlade Chamberlain did. For every Francis there were dozens of 16 year olds who didn't make the grade even back in pre overseas player days. Remember Mike Dowling, Mark Graves, Danny O'Hagan,Paul Adcock, Mike Ham etc etc all the way through to that Bentley lad who got himself sent off in a season turning promotion clash with Oxford a couple of years ago. Common denominator is that they weren't good enough and didn't make another league appearance after they left Argyle. Harvey and Rooney have now got a chance to buck that trend and I hope they make the most of it-nothing against them at all on a personal level. On a wider basis, PASOTI has been rife with dire warnings about the cost of failure to gain promotion this year and ATD has it's own "could you stomach another season in this league" type thread. If you were manager and you were well aware of the consequences both to the club and your own career of not going up this season, which would you sooner put your trust in-totally unproven players or tried and trusted experience? I know which course i'd follow and i'm pretty sure that most others would be the same if they were occupying the hot seat and the decision really mattered.

For every Dowling, Graves or whoever, there is an Aakisomething, a Blasczk, a Aliboasommat, who were just as poor, if not worse. Just take a look at Garita ffs. He can't even play the game. I go back to the original point of employing and giving proper football talent it's chance to mature and compete. There is no proof whatsoever that these imports have improved the game or improved the prospects of the club employing them. None whatsoever.
It's no different than importing second rate coal into this country built on coal, purely because it's cheaper. It's a fashion, and probably a corrupt one, that needs to be exposed for what it is.
No one was more delighted than me when the likes of Seip, Buzacky and Halmosi rocked up, but now it's just gone too far. How on earth did someone like Falon get where he did ? Rules need to be brought in limiting this pointless influx. I don't believe in a totally free market in anything. Such a concept doesn't exist in reality. Just like the actual sport itself, without rules, it's a downhill journey.

Oh, and one more point Skinny, seeing as you're talking about "tried and trusted" players. Tke a gander at today's BBC article on RB Leipzig in Germany, their rise and their manager's reliance on untried non league players. Fascinating, fascinating article for many reasons. There's only one way to steal a march, and that's to try a different walk.

beesrus wrote:

Birmingham did with Trevor Francis. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Rooney (Wayne) was a better player at 17 than when he was 30. Stephens was better than what else we had. He looked quite composed and tight. He could actually play football, which seems to be less and less of a requirement these days in the theatre of screams. Tickling ears and bumbling around up front without falling over too often seem to be the order of the day. Won't be long before all footballers in this country are 6ft 10 basket ball players or second row rugger thick 'eds.
Decent youngsters become great players in this country despite the coaching and managing, not because of it. All too rare these days, now bottom line performance is de rigeur. The joke is teams still go down, no matter what.  rant rant rant

You don't half talk drivel.

Are you seriously comparing a centre back from torpoint with the first ever one million pound player. Stephens choose to go to Southampton at 16 years of age. It was in the administration days when argyle had no say on the matter. He's now 23 and has only now developed into a decent player.

There's one ingredient that rarely gets mentioned. It's called desire. You can't coach it and you can't manage it. Maybe Harvey and most local lads are lacking it.

beesrus wrote:

It's no different than importing second rate coal into this country built on coal, purely because it's cheaper. It's a fashion, and probably a corrupt one, that needs to be exposed for what it is.

Cracked it. Wondered where Sir John Hawkins/Lord Biro had disappeared to.

Seems like he's selling honey at Bees 'R' Us.